Looking for Swadesh list for toki pona

Language learning: How to speak Toki Pona, translation problems, advice, memory aids, tools and methods to learn Toki Pona and other languages faster
Lingva lernado: Kiel paroli Tokiponon, tradukproblemoj, konsiloj, memoraj helpiloj, iloj kaj metodoj por pli rapide lerni Tokiponon kaj aliajn lingvojn
janMato
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Looking for Swadesh list for toki pona

Postby janMato » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:39 pm

Before I re-invent the wheel, and poorly, has anyone already translated the Swadesh list into toki pona? My first look makes me think each word on the Swadesh list could be translated many ways into tp.

I'm trying to reconstruct proto-toki-pona. It looks like the toki ponans were neighbors of the proto-indo-europeans and the proto-uralic tribes and have somehow migrated to Canada.

janKipo
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Re: Looking for Swadesh list for toki pona

Postby janKipo » Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:28 pm

There is a start on tp for the Swadesh list in the notes to my LCC paper on Semantic Primes (somewhere on conlangs.org, I think).
The most plausible story about tp, in line with its foundation in pidgins, is that it is what arose when people from diverse rather remote areas came together in the wake of a global catastrophe.

janMato
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Re: Looking for Swadesh list for toki pona

Postby janMato » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:42 pm

Here is a draft Swadesh list. I was surprised how much gutter talk there was on the Swadesh list. Some words are rated R. Many words take a phrase or entire sentence to build up and after you built it, you won't find a place to plug it on account of not having subordinate clauses. Generating multi-word verbs is still a black art. I don't trust my multi word verb phrases.

I - mi

you (singular) - sina

he - ona

we - mi, mi mute, mi ale

you (plural)- sina, sina mute, sina ale, sina suli (in the indo-european sense of honorific-you)

they- ona mute

this- ni

that - ni ante

here - ma ni, ni

there - ni ante (?)

who - seme, jan seme

what - seme, ijo seme

where -seme, ma seme

when- seme, tenpo seme

how- seme, kepeken seme

not - ale, ali

all - ala

many- mute

some - ale mute

few- lili, nanpa lili

other- ante

one - wan

two - tu

three - tu wan

four - tu tu

five - luka, tu tu wan

big - suli, mute

long - linja mute (?)

wide - mute, lipu mute

thick - mute

heavy - mute

small - lili

short - lili

narrow - lili

thin - linja lili

woman - meli

man (adult male) - meji

Man (human being) - jan

child - jan lili

wife - meli

husband - meji

mother - jan mam meli

father - jan mama meji

animal- soweli, akesi

fish - kala, li kala, li pali kala, li pali e kali

bird - waso

dog - soweli

louse - pipi, pipi lili, pipi lili pi linja lawa

snake - akesi linja

worm - akesi linja pi ko ma

tree - kasi suli

forest - kasi suli pi nanpa mute

stick - palisa, li wan lon lipu (like glue)

fruit - kili, li pana e kili

seed - unpa pi pan kasi, li pana e kasi sin

leaf - lipu kasi, li pana e lipu kasi

root - noka kasi, li alisa anpa kasi suli

bark - selo pi kasi suli, li toki sama soweli pi tomo jan

flower- ilo unpa pi kasi kule, li pana e ilo unpa pi kasi kuli

grass - kasi linja laso jelo, ijo nasa pi kasi lipu nasa

rope- linja, li kama jo kepeken linja

skin- selo, selo jan, li weka e selo soweli

meat - moku pi soweli moli

blood - telo loje, telo loje pi sijelo insa

bone - kiwen pi sitelen insa, li unpa

fat (n.) - moku pi wawa mute, ilo poka pi sijelo insa

egg - poki walo

horn- ilo utala pi lawa akesi

tail - linja monsi

feather- ilo tawa pi sijelo walo

hair - linja, linja lawa

head- lawa

ear- kute

eye- oko, li lukin

nose- nena sinpin, li pilin kepeken nena sinpin (to touch/feel with the nose)

mouth- uta, uta lawa, uta sinpin, li pilin kepeken uta sinpin

tooth- kiwen pi uta lawa, kiwen walo pi uta lawa

tongue- ilo toki pi uta lawa

fingernail- ilo kepeken ala pi luka jan

foot - noka, pini noka

leg - noka

knee- noka insa, li utala kepeken noka insa

hand- pini luka, li pana

wing - luka walo, li pali kepeken sona ala (to wing it)

belly- sijelo insa

guts- ilo jaki pi sijelo insa

neck- anpa lawa, li unpa kepeken uta lon anpa lawa (to neck)

back- monsi, monsi sewi, li pana e mani tawa esun (to back an enterprise)

breast- neni, neni meli, sinpin pi sijelo meji

heart- insa, ilo tawa pi telo loje pi sijelo insa

liver- ilo pi kepeken sona ala pi sijelo insa

drink- li moku (verb), telo (noun)

eat- li moku

bite- li moku

suck- moku kin e kon, moku kin e telo

spit- li pana e telo tan uta (?)

vomit- li pana e moku tan uta (?)

blow- li pana e kon tan uta (?), li unpa e palisa meji kepeken uta sinpin

breathe- li moku e kon

laugh- li a a a, li toki e a a a,

see- li lukin

hear- li kute

know- li sona

think- li sona

smell- li sona e kon

fear- li pilin wili ala ???

sleep- li lape

live- li lon, li ali (but even though "li ali" is/was in the cannon, if find in hard to read)

die- li moli, intransitive

kill- li moli e (somthing), transitive

fight- utala

hunt- alasa

hit- ??

cut- li weka

split- li tu

stab- li pakala kepeken palisa

scratch- li pana e linja kepeken ilo

dig- li uta, li pali e uta, li pana e uta

swim- li tawa lon telo

fly (v.)- li tawa kepeken ilo waso

walk- li tawa

come- li kama

lie- li kama e sijelo lon ma

sit- li kama e monsi lon ma

stand- li kama ala (not go anwhere), ??? (stand on two feet)

turn- ??

fall- ??

give- li pana

hold- li jo

squeeze- li jo kin kepeken luka

rub- ??

wash- li telo

wipe- li telo kepeken len

pull- ??

push- ??

throw- li weka

tie - li kama awen kepeken linja

sew- li pali kepeken linja len, li kama awen kepeken linja len,

count- li toki e nanpa

say- li toki

sing- li toki musi

play- li musi

float- li tawa sewi telo

flow- li tawa, li tawa sama telo

freeze- li lete, li lete pini

swell- li pona e sijelo

sun- suno

moon- mun

star- suno pi ma ante

water- telo

rain- telo pi sewi laso, telo lili pi suli laso, telo oko pi jan sewi, telo jaki pi jan sewi

river- telo linja

lake- telo pi ma uta, telo tawa ala pi ma uta

sea- telo mute, telo suli

salt- ijo walo pi telo suli

stone- kiwen, li kiwen

sand- kiwen lili lili

dust- kiwen jaki lili lili

earth- ma, ma suli

cloud- kon, kon telo, kon telo walo

fog- kon telo pi kule mun

sky- suli laso

wind- kon, kon tawa

snow- kiwen telo pi suli laso, kiwen pi telo jelo pi jan suli

ice- kiwen telo

smoke- kon pimeja, li moku e palisi moli

fire - seli, li seli

ashes- ilo pi kule mun pi seli moli

burn- li pakala kepeken seli

road- nasin, linja tawa

mountain- ma neni

red- loje

green- laso jelo / jelo laso

yellow- jelo

white- walo

black- pimeja

night- tenpo pimeja, tenpo pi suno ala, tenpo mun

day- tenpo suno

year- tenpo pi suno sike

warm- li seli

cold- lape

full- ???

new- sin

old- sin ala

good- pona

bad- ike

rotten- moku kepeken akesi mute lili lili

dirty- jaki

straight- ???, unpa ante

round- sike

sharp- sama ilo sin pi kama tu

dull- sama ilo pakala pi kama tu

smooth- sama lipu

wet- kepeken telo lon selo

dry- li jo ala e telo

correct- pona, li pona

near- lon ni

far- lon ni ala

right- luka ante (if you can't tell anyhow), poka mi/poka sina (e.g. if in a car), nasin pi jan mani

left- luka ante (if you can't tell anyhow), poka mi/poka sina (e.g. if in a car), nasin pi jan pali

at- lon (but varies depending on grammatical construction)

in- lon (but varies depending on grammatical construction)

with- kepeken (but varies depending on grammatical construction)

and- en (but varies depending on grammatical construction)

if- la (but varies depending on grammatical construction)

because- tan (but varies depending on grammatical construction)

name- nimi, nimi ilo, nimi jan, nimi toki, etc.

janKipo
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Re: Looking for Swadesh list for toki pona

Postby janKipo » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:58 pm

Here is a draft Swadesh list. I was surprised how much gutter talk there was on the Swadesh list. Some words are rated R. Many words take a phrase or entire sentence to build up and after you built it, you won't find a place to plug it on account of not having subordinate clauses. Generating multi-word verbs is still a black art. I don't trust my multi word verb phrases. COMMENTS

I - mi

you (singular) - sina

he - ona

we - mi, mi mute, mi ale

you (plural)- sina, sina mute, sina ale, sina suli (in the indo-european sense of honorific-you)

they- ona mute

this- ni

that - ni ante

here - ma ni, ni LON NI

there - ni ante (?) JUST 'NI' TOO - ONE DEICTIC HAS TO DO FOR ALL)

who - seme, jan seme

what - seme, ijo seme

where -seme, ma seme LON SEME

when- seme, tenpo seme

how- seme, kepeken seme NASIN SEME

not - ale, ali NO, THOSE ARE "ALL"

all - ala CONVERSELY WITH ABOVE (WORST POSSIBLE MINIMAL PAIR)

many- mute

some - ale mute OR JUST RELEVANT NOUN, E.G. "SOMEONE" IS 'JAN'

few- lili, [nanpa lili NOT SO GOOD, 'LILI NANPA' IS BETTER, BUT NOT MUCH]

other- ante

one - wan

two - tu

three - tu wan

four - tu tu

five - luka, tu tu wan

big - suli, [mute ONLY IN SPECIAL CASES]

long - linja mute (?) BETTER WITH 'SULI' AND THEN BETTER AS 'SULI LINJA'

wide - mute, lipu mute 'SULI' AGAIN, NOT CLEAR HOW TO DISTINGUISH FROM "LONG" AND "TALL"

thick - mute 'SULI' 'MUTE' IS REALLY ABOUT QUANTITY, NOT EXTENT.

heavy - mute 'SULI,' 'WAWA'

small - lili

short - lili

narrow - lili

thin - linja lili PROBABLY NOT -- NOT CLEAR HOW TO DISTINGUISH THE DIMENSIONS

woman - meli

man (adult male) - meji

Man (human being) - jan

child - jan lili

wife - meli

husband - meji

mother - jan mama meli

father - jan mama meji

animal- soweli, akesi

fish - kala, li kala, li pali kala, li pali e kali THE VERBS ARE PROBABLY 'ALASA'

bird - waso

dog - soweli WITH VARIOUS APPROPRIATE SPECIFIERS

louse - pipi, pipi lili, pipi lili pi linja lawa PIPI LILI SIJELO - LOTSA KINDS OF LICE AROUND

snake - akesi linja

worm - akesi linja pi ko ma WORMS ARE PROBABLY PIPI

tree - kasi suli

forest - kasi suli pi nanpa mute DON'T NEED THE 'PI NANPA' BUT MAYBE 'MA PI KASI SULI MUTE'

stick - palisa, [li wan lon lipu (like glue) NICE BUT NOT THE RELEVANT SENSE]

fruit - kili, li pana e kili

seed - unpa pi pan kasi, li pana e kasi sin ? BOTH THESE SEEM TO MISS THE POINT. WHY 'PAN'? NOT SURE HOW TO GO THOUGH

leaf - lipu kasi, li pana e lipu kasi

root - noka kasi, li alisa anpa kasi suli 'PALISA'? THE VERB DOESN'T WORK. AS A NOUN 'PALISA PI ANPA PI KASI SULI' IS GOOD FOR CERTAIN ROOTS.

bark - selo pi kasi suli, [li toki sama soweli pi tomo jan NOT 'TOKI,' 'MU' - WRONG SENSE, OBVIOUSLY. OR 'KALAMA']

flower- ilo unpa pi kasi kule, li pana e ilo unpa pi kasi kuli JUST 'KASI KULE' IS ENOUGH, WE DON'T NEED TO BE TOO CLINICAL HERE

grass - kasi linja laso jelo, [ijo nasa pi kasi lipu nasa WELL, YES, BUT ... USUALLY JUST 'KASI NASA'

rope- linja, li kama jo kepeken linja

skin- selo, selo jan, li weka e selo soweli

meat - moku pi soweli moli

blood - telo loje, telo loje pi sijelo insa 'INSA SIJELO'

bone - kiwen pi sitelen insa, [li unpa TSK! SEE JUST ABOVE

fat (n.) - moku pi wawa mute, ilo poka pi sijelo insa ? SEE ABOVE. HOW IS FAT A TOOL? MAYBE 'WAN POKA' BUT DOUBTFUL. NO SUGGESTIONS

egg - poki walo NOT BAD, 'SIKE MAMA' STANDARD

horn- ilo utala pi lawa akesi MISS. SOWELI, TOO, AND OTHER THINGS ARE ILO UTALA. 'PALISA LAWA'?

tail - linja monsi

feather- ilo tawa pi sijelo walo WELL, NOT JUST TRAVEL INSTRUMENTS, BUT HEATING, WATERPROOFING, ETC. PROBABLY SOMETHING INVOLVING 'LINJA' AND 'LIPU' BUT i DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE TO GO.

hair - linja, linja lawa AND SIJELO

head- lawa

ear- kute 'NENA KUTE'

eye- oko, li lukin

nose- nena sinpin, li pilin kepeken nena sinpin (to touch/feel with the nose) 'NENA LAWA'


mouth- uta, uta lawa, uta sinpin, li pilin kepeken uta sinpin

tooth- kiwen pi uta lawa, kiwen walo pi uta lawa 'WALO UTA;' YOURS ARE GOOD TO BUT LONGER

tongue- ilo toki pi uta lawa 'LIPU UTA'

fingernail- ilo kepeken ala pi luka jan NOW, NOW -- VERY USEFUL IN FIGHTS. 'KIWEN PI PALISA LUKA'

foot - noka, pini noka

leg - noka

knee- noka insa, [li utala kepeken noka insa

hand- pini luka, li pana

wing - luka walo, [li pali kepeken sona ala (to wing it)

belly- sijelo insa INSA SIJELO

guts- ilo jaki pi sijelo insa I JUST REMEMBERED, YOU GET 'ILO' AND 'IJO' MIXED; IGNORE QUESTIONS ABOUT "TOOL" SO 'IJO JAKI PI INSA SIJELO'

neck- anpa lawa, [li unpa kepeken uta lon anpa lawa (to neck)

back- monsi, monsi sewi, [li pana e mani tawa esun (to back an enterprise)

breast- neni, neni meli, sinpin pi sijelo meji NENA! ALSO 'NENA MAMA'

heart- insa, ilo tawa pi telo loje pi sijelo insa

liver- ilo pi kepeken sona ala pi sijelo insa ? 'INSA PIMEJA/LOJE'

drink- li moku (verb), telo (noun)

eat- li moku

bite- li moku SOMETHING ABOUT TEETH, MAYBE

suck- moku kin e kon, moku kin e telo WHY 'KIN'? WE DON'T HAVE THE OPPOSITE OF 'PANA' WHICH WOULD BE USEFUL HERE. [WHAT, NO R VERSION HERE?

spit- li pana e telo tan uta (?) LITERAL BUT RIGHT

vomit- li pana e moku tan uta (?) NOT JUST MOKU BUT TELO GENERALLY -- AND KO, i SUPPOSE.

blow- li pana e kon tan uta (?), [li unpa e palisa meji kepeken uta sinpin

breathe- li moku e kon

laugh- li a a a, li toki e a a a, ' PANA E KON (PI PILIN) PONA'

see- li lukin

hear- li kute

know- li sona

think- li sona 'PILIN' IS BETTER

smell- li sona e kon SOMETHING ABOUT PILIN KON

fear- li pilin wili ala ??? 'PILIN IKE' BUT THIS IS A VERY GENERAL TERM, NOT SURE HOW TO BE MORE PRECISE.

sleep- li lape

live- li lon, li ali (but even though "li ali" is/was in the cannon, if find in hard to read) I DON'T CARE FOR IT MUCH EITHER, EXCEPT IN "THAT'S LIFE"

die- li moli, intransitive ALSO 'KAMA MOLI' FOR THE EVENT ITSELF.

kill- li moli e (somthing), transitive

fight- utala

hunt- alasa

hit- ?? 'UTALA' AGAIN, OFFICIALLY ONE WANTS SOMETHING LIKE 'PANA E WAWA'

cut- li weka

split- li tu

stab- li pakala kepeken palisa

scratch- li pana e linja kepeken ilo HMMM! I GUESS TJHIS WORKS, BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM OPTIMAL.

dig- li uta, li pali e uta, li pana e uta PROBABLY 'LUPA' RATHER THAN 'UTA'

swim- li tawa lon telo

fly (v.)- li tawa kepeken ilo waso WELL, NOT NECESSARILY, MAYBE JUST 'TAWA LON KON'

walk- li tawa OR 'TAWA NOKA' TO BE SPECIFIC

come- li kama

lie- li kama e sijelo lon ma 'OR WITH 'ANPA' 'KAMA SUPA' OR EVEN JUST 'SUPA'

sit- li kama e monsi lon ma AGAIN WITH 'ANPA'

stand- [i kama ala (not go anwhere), ??? (stand on two feet)] THE FIRST IS 'AWEN' SECOND IS 'KAMA SINPIN'

turn- ?? 'TAWA ANTE'?

fall- ?? ANPA

give- li pana

hold- li jo

squeeze- li jo kin kepeken luka WHY 'KIN'? PROBABLY 'JO WAWA' OR SOME SUCH

rub- ?? ?INDEED

wash- li telo

wipe- li telo kepeken len BUT WIPING NEED NOT BE WASHING, BACK TO,"RUB"

pull- ?? TAWA E

push- ?? KAMA E

throw- li weka

tie - li kama awen kepeken linja

sew- li pali kepeken linja len, li kama awen kepeken linja len,

count- li toki e nanpa NOT QUITE ENOUGH, BUT 'LI NANPA' WORKS

say- li toki

sing- li toki musi

play- li musi

float- li tawa sewi telo 'LON SUPA TELO'

flow- li tawa, li tawa sama telo

freeze- li lete, li lete pini 'LI KIWEN LETE'

swell- li pona e sijelo PONA? EDEMA IS GOOD? , 'KAMA SULI' 'SULI E'

sun- suno

moon- mun

star- suno pi ma ante 'MUN LILI' ACTUALLY

water- telo

rain- telo pi sewi laso, telo lili pi suli laso, telo oko pi jan sewi, telo jaki pi jan sewi POETIC THERE. 'KON TELO' OR 'TELO KON' 'TELO ANPA'

river- telo linja

lake- telo pi ma uta, telo tawa ala pi ma uta 'LUPA'? 'TELO SULI'

sea- telo mute, telo suli 'MUTE' SUSPECT, THOUGH ARGUABLE.

salt- ijo walo pi telo suli MAYBWE MORE SPECIFIC 'KIWEN WALO' OR 'KIWEN WALO LILI'

stone- kiwen, [li kiwen THE VERB MEANS "PETRIFY"

sand- kiwen lili lili 'KO KIWEN' OR 'KO MA'

dust- kiwen jaki lili lili AGAIN, 'KO' SEEMS CALLED FOR

earth- ma, ma suli

cloud- kon, kon telo, kon telo walo

fog- kon telo pi kule mun OR 'KON TELO ANPA'

sky- suli laso 'SEWI' 'SEWI KON' 'SEWI LASO'

wind- kon, kon tawa

snow- kiwen telo pi suli laso, kiwen pi telo jelo pi jan suli 'KO LETE' 'KON TELO WALO'

ice- kiwen telo OR, OF COURSE, 'TELO KIWEN'

smoke- kon pimeja, li moku e palisi moli ALSO 'KON SELI'

fire - seli, li seli

ashes- ilo pi kule mun pi seli moli AGAIN A WORD FOR 'KO' 'KO PI SELI PINI' AND THE LIKE.

burn- li pakala kepeken seli OR, INDEED, JUST 'PAKALA SELI'

road- nasin, [linja tawa -THIS IS MORE LIKE AN OSCILLOSCOPE.

mountain- ma neni OR 'NENA MA'

red- loje

green- laso jelo / jelo laso

yellow- jelo

white- walo

black- pimeja

night- tenpo pimeja, tenpo pi suno ala, tenpo mun

day- tenpo suno

year- tenpo pi suno sike ER! 'SIKE SUNO' (THE SUN IS ALAYS ROUND)

warm- li seli

cold- lape 'LETE'!

full- ??? PINI

new- sin

old- sin ala

good- pona

bad- ike

rotten- moku kepeken akesi mute lili lili JAKI

dirty- jaki

straight- ???, [unpa ante

round- sike

sharp- sama ilo sin pi kama tu MAYBE JUST 'TU' ALONE

dull- sama ilo pakala pi kama tu

smooth- sama lipu PROBABLY JUST 'LIPU'

wet- kepeken telo lon selo 'TELO'

dry- li jo ala e telo

correct- pona, li pona

near- lon ni '(LON) POKA'

far- lon ni ala 'WEKA'

right- luka ante (if you can't tell anyhow), poka mi/poka sina (e.g. if in a car), nasin pi jan mani THIS IS ONE OF THE OLDEST PROBLEMS IN TP, WITH NOT FIXED SIOLUTION YET. i ADD YOURS

left- luka ante (if you can't tell anyhow), poka mi/poka sina (e.g. if in a car), nasin pi jan pali

at- lon (but varies depending on grammatical construction) NOT SO MUCH

in- lon (but varies depending on grammatical construction) NOT SO MUCH

with- kepeken (but varies depending on grammatical construction) FOR INSTRUMENTS, 'POKA' FOR ACCOMPANIEMENT (NOT SURE WHAT SWADESH MEANT BUT PROBABLY 'POKA')

and- en (but varies depending on grammatical construction) VERY MUCH

if- la (but varies depending on grammatical construction) NLY ONE POSSIBLE CONSTRUCTION

because- tan (but varies depending on grammatical construction) NOT SO MUCH

name- nimi, nimi ilo, nimi jan, nimi toki, etc.

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jan Josan
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Re: Looking for Swadesh list for toki pona

Postby jan Josan » Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:25 pm

thin - linja lili PROBABLY NOT -- NOT CLEAR HOW TO DISTINGUISH THE DIMENSIONS
'lipu' in certain situations

seed - unpa pi pan kasi, li pana e kasi sin ? BOTH THESE SEEM TO MISS THE POINT. WHY 'PAN'? NOT SURE HOW TO GO THOUGH
kili kiwen ?

fat (n.) - moku pi wawa mute, ilo poka pi sijelo insa ? SEE ABOVE. HOW IS FAT A TOOL? MAYBE 'WAN POKA' BUT DOUBTFUL. NO SUGGESTIONS
'ko sijelo pi awen wawa' or something, depending on context

feather- ilo tawa pi sijelo walo WELL, NOT JUST TRAVEL INSTRUMENTS, BUT HEATING, WATERPROOFING, ETC. PROBABLY SOMETHING INVOLVING 'LINJA' AND 'LIPU' BUT i DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE TO GO.
maybe just 'lipu waso' ?

bite- li moku SOMETHING ABOUT TEETH, MAYBE
there was mention of a snake bite recently-- I think the best answer was 'moku lili' which needs improvement.

suck- moku kin e kon, moku kin e telo WHY 'KIN'? WE DON'T HAVE THE OPPOSITE OF 'PANA' WHICH WOULD BE USEFUL HERE. [WHAT, NO R VERSION HERE?
again, depends on context, maybe something involving 'tawa insa'

salt- ijo walo pi telo suli MAYBWE MORE SPECIFIC 'KIWEN WALO' OR 'KIWEN WALO LILI'
we now have 'namako'

janKipo
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Re: Looking for Swadesh list for toki pona

Postby janKipo » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:27 pm

jan Josan wrote:
thin - linja lili PROBABLY NOT -- NOT CLEAR HOW TO DISTINGUISH THE DIMENSIONS
'lipu' in certain situations

Good idea
seed - unpa pi pan kasi, li pana e kasi sin ? BOTH THESE SEEM TO MISS THE POINT. WHY 'PAN'? NOT SURE HOW TO GO THOUGH
kili kiwen ?

or 'kiwen kili'
fat (n.) - moku pi wawa mute, ilo poka pi sijelo insa ? SEE ABOVE. HOW IS FAT A TOOL? MAYBE 'WAN POKA' BUT DOUBTFUL. NO SUGGESTIONS
'ko sijelo pi awen wawa' or something, depending on context

I don't get the 'awen wawa' (especially the 'wawa' part)
feather- ilo tawa pi sijelo walo WELL, NOT JUST TRAVEL INSTRUMENTS, BUT HEATING, WATERPROOFING, ETC. PROBABLY SOMETHING INVOLVING 'LINJA' AND 'LIPU' BUT i DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE TO GO.
maybe just 'lipu waso' ?

More likely to be taken as "wings" How do we do scales for akesi? "hair of the ..."?
bite- li moku SOMETHING ABOUT TEETH, MAYBE
there was mention of a snake bite recently-- I think the best answer was 'moku lili' which needs improvement.

Yes, eating is not just mastication(and not at all for many animals) 'tu uta'?
suck- moku kin e kon, moku kin e telo WHY 'KIN'? WE DON'T HAVE THE OPPOSITE OF 'PANA' WHICH WOULD BE USEFUL HERE. [WHAT, NO R VERSION HERE?
again, depends on context, maybe something involving 'tawa insa'

Sounds promising, maybe with 'kon' somewhere too.
salt- ijo walo pi telo suli MAYBWE MORE SPECIFIC 'KIWEN WALO' OR 'KIWEN WALO LILI'
we now have 'namako'

Yes, thanks. 'namako ko walo' for starters.

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Re: Looking for Swadesh list for toki pona

Postby janTe » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:04 pm

long - linja mute (?) BETTER WITH 'SULI' AND THEN BETTER AS 'SULI LINJA'

wide - mute, lipu mute 'SULI' AGAIN, NOT CLEAR HOW TO DISTINGUISH FROM "LONG" AND "TALL"

short - lili

thin - linja lili PROBABLY NOT -- NOT CLEAR HOW TO DISTINGUISH THE DIMENSIONS


If you need to distinguish between "length" and "width", I might say:
long - suli pi nasin linja
wide - suli pi nasin ante

short - lili pi nasin linja
thin - lili pi nasin ante

If you don't need to talk about width, then just "suli linja" is fine.

fat (n.) - moku pi wawa mute, ilo poka pi sijelo insa ? SEE ABOVE. HOW IS FAT A TOOL? MAYBE 'WAN POKA' BUT DOUBTFUL. NO SUGGESTIONS


Something involving "ko"? If we had a way to say "fat", we would probably also have a way to say "oil". Since fat and oil are used for burning, maybe "ko pi pana seli" and "telo pi pana seli"?

feather- ilo tawa pi sijelo walo WELL, NOT JUST TRAVEL INSTRUMENTS, BUT HEATING, WATERPROOFING, ETC. PROBABLY SOMETHING INVOLVING 'LINJA' AND 'LIPU' BUT i DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE TO GO.


feather - linja pi luka waso

bite- li moku SOMETHING ABOUT TEETH, MAYBE

cut- li weka

stab- li pakala kepeken palisa

sharp- sama ilo sin pi kama tu MAYBE JUST 'TU' ALONE

dull- sama ilo pakala pi kama tu



These all might benefit from the new word "kipisi".

bite - li kipisi kepeken uta
cut - li kipisi
stab - li kipisi kepeken palisa
sharp - ken kipisi
dull - ken ala kipisi

scratch- li pana e linja kepeken ilo HMMM! I GUESS TJHIS WORKS, BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM OPTIMAL.

rub- ?? ?INDEED


Maybe something involving "pilin" (in the sense of touch)?

scratch - pilin pakala linja lili e
rub - pilin wawa (mute) e

wipe- li telo kepeken len BUT WIPING NEED NOT BE WASHING, BACK TO,"RUB"


If wiping away dirt or sweat, maybe you could say something like "weka e jaki kepeken len", or "weka e telo lon lawa kepeken luka".

But in general:
wipe - weka kepeken pilin

straight- ???, [unpa ante


We were just talking about this in another thread. We suggested using "palisa" as an adjective. (non-canon, but useful.)

right- luka ante (if you can't tell anyhow), poka mi/poka sina (e.g. if in a car), nasin pi jan mani THIS IS ONE OF THE OLDEST PROBLEMS IN TP, WITH NOT FIXED SIOLUTION YET. i ADD YOURS

left- luka ante (if you can't tell anyhow), poka mi/poka sina (e.g. if in a car), nasin pi jan pali


I asked this in another thread. I think "poka wawa" and "poka pilin" were the best suggestions.

janTe
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Re: Looking for Swadesh list for toki pona

Postby janTe » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:14 am

By the way, the more I think about it, the more I think that "heavy" is best represented by wawa, rather than "suli" or "mute".

kiwen wawa -- heavy rock. (kiwen suli would be big rock. kiwen mute would be many rocks.)
telo wawa -- thick liquid. (telo suli doesn't seem right. telo mute would be much water.)

I think "heaviness" and "strength/force/power" are related. (A heavy rock has a strong gravitational force. A thick liquid is hard to stir, which is... frictional force or something. A powerful person "throws their weight around".) Since "wawa" means "strength", it would be nice if it also meant "heavy".

Unfortunately, jan wawa would be ambiguous, because it could mean strong person or heavy person. But I suspect that's not a big problem.

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Re: Looking for Swadesh list for toki pona

Postby janMato » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:54 am

janTe wrote:By the way, the more I think about it, the more I think that "heavy" is best represented by wawa, rather than "suli" or "mute".

...A heavy rock has a strong gravitational force...


You may be on to something. I've been reading up on toki pona astronomy. Gravity almost certainly would be some variation of a "wawa" Also makes me wonder if metaphors should be informed by science, artistic concerns or what. If by science, then we'd expect basic compound phrases to map 1:1 to current ideas about physics, inertia, weight, gravitational force, the four fundamental forces, etc. Somewhere in the corpus there is a translation of Newton's three laws.

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Re: Looking for Swadesh list for toki pona

Postby jan Ote » Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:31 am

janMato wrote:Somewhere in the corpus there is a translation of Newton's three laws.
Michael Fridman: nasin tawa pi jan Nuton


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