toki suli Intenasijonale

Language learning: How to speak Toki Pona, translation problems, advice, memory aids, tools and methods to learn Toki Pona and other languages faster
Lingva lernado: Kiel paroli Tokiponon, tradukproblemoj, konsiloj, memoraj helpiloj, iloj kaj metodoj por pli rapide lerni Tokiponon kaj aliajn lingvojn
jan-ante
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toki suli Intenasijonale

Postby jan-ante » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:28 pm

o kama! jan pali o kama!
o kama tawa utala!
mi pilin sama nena seli
tan ni: jan mani li lon ma.
mi o utala e nasin mani
o sin e jan, o sin e ma.
jan pali kin li kama suli.
ona li jo e pan e ma.

utala ni li pini
la jan ale li lon
ma Intenasijonale
li jo e ma e kon.

o awen ala pona sewi.
o awen ala pona jan.
o kepeken e wawa sona
e sona pi kulupu jan.
mi o pakala e lawa ike
o kama jo e ijo mi.
mi kepeken e wawa seli
tawa jan lawa ike kin.

utala ni li pini
la jan ale li lon
ma Intenasijonale
li jo e ma e kon.

jan pali taso li ken pana
e ijo pona tawa ma.
jan mani li ken moku taso
e ijo pona pi jan ma.
jan li pakala e nasin mani
li moli e jan mani la
jan ale li ken pilin pona
li jo e ijo pona ma.

utala ni li pini
la jan ale li lon
ma Intenasijonale
li jo e ma e kon.

stanza ##1, 2, 6
i have an alternative version for the last 4 lines of last stanza, but not sure which one is better:
tenpo kama la jan mani ale
li anpa moli tawa ma.
ni li lon la jan pali ale
li jo e ijo pona ma

for your references: FR RU EN PL
sorry, it does not allow me to have more than 4 references, so others were dropped down
Last edited by jan-ante on Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jan Ote
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Re: toki suli Intenasijonale

Postby jan Ote » Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:12 pm

jan-ante o a! mi ken kalama musi e ni! a! pona!

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Re: toki suli Intenasijonale

Postby jan-ante » Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:51 pm

jak Ote wrote:jan-ante o a! mi ken kalama musi e ni! a! pona!

dzinkuju
but i want your opinion about last 4 lines of last stanza, please

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jan Ote
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Re: toki suli Intenasijonale

Postby jan Ote » Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:36 am

I prefer the second version, because the first says 'jan [...] li moli e jan mani'. In the original version there is no explicit killing... On the other hand, the first version is more clear to me. I do not understand the end of the second verse of the second version
tenpo kama la jan mani ale
li anpa moli tawa ma.

[in the future] all capitalists
will lie dead to the Earth?

Could you please add punctuation to all stanzas?

jan-ante
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Re: toki suli Intenasijonale

Postby jan-ante » Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:07 pm

jak Ote wrote:I prefer the second version, because the first says 'jan [...] li moli e jan mani'. In the original version there is no explicit killing...
right. neither marxist theory sais this. we can replace moli with anpa.

li anpa moli tawa ma.
[in the future] all capitalists
will lie dead to the Earth?

yes, "fall dead to the earth". may be even tawa ko. ma is too good for capitalists :). then the last line could be "li jo e pan li jo e kon". alternatively, we can finish like this:
tenpo suno wan la (lawa/pipi) ike
li weka pakala tan ma.
tan ni la suno li ken pana / ni li lon la suno li pana
e seli pona tawa jan.
this is closer to original version, which mentions one morning and sun

Could you please add punctuation to all stanzas?
done, in the 1st message

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jan Ote
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Re: toki suli Intenasijonale

Postby jan Ote » Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:07 pm

tenpo suno wan la (lawa/pipi) ike -- pipi? Ekhem...
li weka pakala tan ma.
I cannot understand the verb in the last verse. 'bad rulers will ... from Earth'. What does it mean: 'ona li weka pakala'? Cannot find any sense joining the verb 'to be absent' with a modifier 'pakala'.

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Re: toki suli Intenasijonale

Postby jan-ante » Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:29 pm

jak Ote wrote:tenpo suno wan la (lawa/pipi) ike -- pipi?

parasites. but keep lawa if pipi is confusing

li weka pakala tan ma.
I cannot understand the verb in the last verse. 'bad rulers will ... from Earth'. What does it mean: 'ona li weka pakala'? Cannot find any sense joining the verb 'to be absent' with a modifier 'pakala'.

i mean weka=leave, weka pakala leave with losses, damages. may be it should be tawa instead of weka. jan Kipo says tawa is overuse, so to proove he is right we can use it once again.

alternatively, this new version is possible:
tenpo suno wan la nasin mani
li pini pakala e ma
ni li lon la suno li pana
e seli pona tawa jan

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jan Ote
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Re: toki suli Intenasijonale

Postby jan Ote » Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:23 am

pona mute.
I'd like to use your text on my tokiPL website. Would you like to send me your name and home page address, to make a link to? Or would to prefer to stay anonymous?

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Re: toki suli Intenasijonale

Postby jan-ante » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:33 pm

pona mute. taso mi wile e ni: mi tu li awen lon tenpo suno 3-4 li lukin tawa toki suli Intenasijonale li pilin e pona ala pona tawa ona. ni li tawa la sina o kk e to su Internasionale lon lipu sona sina. sina li pilin seme tawa toki tu ni:

1) tenpo suno wan la nasin mani
li pini pakala e ma
ni li lon la suno li pana
e seli pona tawa jan

2)jan li pakala e nasin mani
li anpa e jan mani la
jan ale li ken pilin pona
li jo e ijo pona ma

seme li pona mute?

also one there is an alternative version of referain:
ni li utala pini.
tan ni la jan li lon
ma Intenasijonale.
jan pona sin li lon.
to me, the last line is closer to original (Sera le genre humain) than "li jo e ma e kon". sina li pilin seme?

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jan Ote
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Re: toki suli Intenasijonale

Postby jan Ote » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:01 am

The first version has the original sun as a symbol of happy life. Finally the sun gives its nice heat to all men (it's from the official version used in Soviet Union). Nice. ona li pona tawa mi. The stanza says: capitalism will dissapear and people will be happy. The second version is about fight, is all revolutionary, but when it finishes there is no symbol of rest, peace and goodness. The end of the second version is: and all people will HAVE ijo pona ma. I prefer the first one. Pust' vsegda budet solnce.

jan-ante wrote:to me, the last line is closer to original (Sera le genre humain) than "li jo e ma e kon". sina li pilin seme?
mi pilin sama. There is no "li jo e kon" in original. The expression "li jo e ma e kon" reminds me of eschatology (they inherit earth and heaven or alike )...
'jan pona sin li lon' li kulupu nimi pona mute.


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