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toki musi mi

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:20 pm
by aikidave
tenpo mute la mije li sike e suno. mije li moli la mije li wile jo e mani ona. mije li tawa tomo mani. mije li jo mani ona. mije li pana lon poki len tu e mani. mije li pana lon sewi tomo ona e poki. mije li pilin ni: tenpo mi moli la mi jo lon sewi e poki mani. tenpo lili la mije li kama moli lon tomo ona. meli ona li lukin lon sewi tomo e poki mani. meli ona li pilin ni: tenpo pini la mije li wile pana lon anpa tomo e poki mani.
mije li pilin ni: mije li tawa sewi. mije li tawa anpa.

:lol:

My first attempt at telling a joke in tp ! Comments please.

A man is old. If the man dies, he wants to take his money with him. He goes to the bank. He takes his money. He puts the money in 2 pillow cases. He puts the bags in his attic. He thinks: If I die, I take the money to heaven. In a little while the man dies in his house. His wife sees the money bags in the attic. She thinks this: before (he died) he should have put the money bags in the cellar.
The man thought he was going to heaven. Instead he went to hell !

Re: toki musi mi

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:40 pm
by jan-ante
well, the main problem here is neglected grammatics, e.g. "sewi tomo ona" is better to express as "sewi pi tomo ona", sw@tmon. also, "e" should be right after the predicate, e.g. not like this:
mije li pana lon poki len tu e mani
, but mije li pana e mani lon poki len tu
also this mistake was at following instances:
mi jo lon sewi e poki mani
mije li pana lon sewi tomo ona e poki
mije li wile pana lon anpa tomo e poki mani
...etc
sometimes "e" is missed, e.g. after pilin, after jo. i would recommend you to try once again with more attention

Re: toki musi mi

Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:19 am
by aikidave
Here is my updated version. I'm trying to learn how to use the transitive form of 'lon' for 'put/place'.

tenpo mute la mije li sike e suno.
mije li moli la mije li wile jo e mani ona.
mije li tawa tomo mani.
mije li jo e mani ona.
mije li lon insa poki len tu e mani.
mije li lon sewi pi tomo ona e poki.
mije li pilin ni: tenpo pi moli mi la mi jo e poki mani lon sewi pona.
tenpo lili la mije li kama moli lon tomo ona.
meli ona li lukin e poki mani lon sewi tomo.
meli ona li pilin e ni: tenpo pini la mije li wile lon anpa tomo e poki mani.
mije li pilin e ni: mi tawa sewi pona.
taso mije li tawa anpa ike.

Re: toki musi mi

Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:21 pm
by jan-ante
aikidave wrote: I'm trying to learn how to use the transitive form of 'lon' for 'put/place'.
why?? transitive "lon" would mean to cause the existance of something, e.g. ml*ln~jnll. besor you used pana for "put/place", and that was a right way to do
mije li lon insa poki len tu e mani
mije li lon sewi pi tomo ona e poki
use pana:
mj*pn~mn lnoiletu
mj*pn~oi lnsw@tmon
mije li wile lon anpa tomo e poki mani
you could do it like above, but (to me) it is not a good idea to use "wile" for "should", although you have a right to do so. it is confusing. may be consider this: mj*pn~mn lnaptm^ni*po twon

Re: toki musi mi

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:40 pm
by janKipo
Well, I suggested using 'lon' because it has the very precise meaning of "place at/in" (The meaning 'exist' is very derivative from its basic prepositional sense "at/in" and similarly the 'true' and 'alive' meanings. These arise only when no place is specified.) 'pana' seems to mean basically 'emit, send out' and so to emphasize the source or departure point rather than the final place. 'lon' stresses the final point -- essentially by not considering the action involved at all, but only its result: the thing is at its destination.

Re: toki musi mi

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:09 pm
by jan-ante
no, it is a bad idea. this usage of "lon" is too confusing and misleading. "pana" works satisfactory, but one can also use "tawa" - he moved a bags to the roof

Re: toki musi mi

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:04 pm
by janKipo
As I said, 'pana' just seems wrong to me but 'tawa' certainly works. I just think 'tawa' is overused.

Re: toki musi mi

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:04 pm
by jan Josan
janKipo wrote:As I said, 'pana' just seems wrong to me but 'tawa' certainly works. I just think 'tawa' is overused.
I can't seem to be able to search the old yahoo discussion board for 'pana' but I know there are several good examples in there. the problem with 'lon' is that while it does mean 'in' and seems to work for a direct translation of "to put in" it also implies stasis, where what is important in the sentence is that the money is moving from the man to the attic. compare the following three sentences:

ona li pana e mani tawa tomo sewi. / he puts the money in the attic.
ona li awen e mani lon tomo sewi. / he keeps his money in the attic.
ona li kama jo e mani tan tomo sewi. / he gets his money from the attic.

I think you could add 'insa' in front of 'tomo sewi' in any one of the sentences to emphasize that it is inside of the attic but I don't think it's necessary. With the pillowcases, it may be more important to stress 'ona li pana e mani tawa insa poki len tu" to get the image across.

pali pona a!

Re: toki musi mi

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:57 pm
by janKipo
Well, I'm not sure that 'lon' implies stasis, and certainly as a transitive verb it implies a change and the causal agency of the man in the change.
and I would have thought that what was important was the man placed the money *in the attic,* how it got there seems less to the point, requiring only that he is the agent of its being there. I am not sure what 'pana' adds to 'lon' in this, except that its intransitive form is less static (I think -- I don't remember what 'pana' means intransitively -- and after a quick check, I can't find cases, but I did find some clear cases of 'pana' meaning "put", so ignore my feelings).
I agree that th 'insa pi' is unneeded -- unless we get someone who wonders it it is on the roof or floating in the space above the roof. (There are lotsa folks like that in conlangdom.)

Re: toki musi mi

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:00 pm
by jan-ante
janKipo wrote:'tawa' certainly works. I just think 'tawa' is overused.
well, it is. but dont overuse the "lon". it could hardly bear this burden