jan Kikamesi. jan lawa pi ma tomo Uluku

Language learning: How to speak Toki Pona, translation problems, advice, memory aids, tools and methods to learn Toki Pona and other languages faster
Lingva lernado: Kiel paroli Tokiponon, tradukproblemoj, konsiloj, memoraj helpiloj, iloj kaj metodoj por pli rapide lerni Tokiponon kaj aliajn lingvojn
janKipo
Posts: 3037
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: jan Kikamesi. jan lawa pi ma tomo Uluku

Postby janKipo » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:38 pm

jan-ante wrote:
jak Ote wrote:
jan Kipo wrote:suno pi jan sewi An li anpa wawa LON poka mi
"poka mi" alone means "with me"

i thought this is what you mean: many people gather(ed) with him

Probably true, but this is about the star crashing down beside him

If ''jan lawa soweli" is a shepherd...

pn@ijns*ni: lw*wasj jnlw*wa@kpjn. but the shepherd is not a member of soweli society, although the reader might imply this. consider jan pi lukin tawa soweli or jan wawa @kpow to stress thet he is in fact an overseer or slave-driver


I gotta say I can't read your shorthand comfortably or surely, so I'm not sure what your comment is

jan-ante
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:05 pm

Re: jan Kikamesi. jan lawa pi ma tomo Uluku

Postby jan-ante » Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:45 pm

jak Ote wrote:
taso jan soweli Enkitu li pakala lupa ni en ilo ni. ona li kama e ni: soweli li ken tawa weka.
tenpo ali la ona li pakala lupa ma mi en ilo mi. mi ken ala kama jo e soweli tan ona".

"lupa" is a direct object, so it needs "e".
jan pi utala soweli li lukin e jan soweli Enkitu wawa

did he see a strong Enkidu or the strength of Enkidu?
jan lawa soweli mute li kepeken li lukin e jan Enkitu li toki e ni
to me it is not clear, what kepeken is doing here. about the shepherd, may be stress that the animals were domestic and he was an overseer of them, not their guide.
suno pi jan sewi An li anpa poka mi.
may be kama anp
mi tawa e ona tawa sina tawa e ni:
the second "e" (bold) should be removed
mi tu sama ala sama
you need "li" here
tenpo pimeja wan la jan Kikamesi li unpa e olin mi
from the subsequent text it sould be wile or kama unpa. not unpa yet!
jan Enkitu li pilin e uta pi jan Kikamesi kepeken uta ona
is it really a french kiss in the text? may be just a kiss? grammatically it is ol korekt, but "kepeken" makes the sentence a bit ugly. may be: uta pi jE li pilin e...?

User avatar
jan Ote
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:15 am
Location: ma Posuka
Contact:

Re: jan Kikamesi. jan lawa pi ma tomo Uluku

Postby jan Ote » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:34 pm

Thank you, jan-ante.

jan-ante wrote:
jan pi utala soweli li lukin e jan soweli Enkitu wawa

did he see a strong Enkidu or the strength of Enkidu?
The former.

jan lawa soweli mute li kepeken li lukin e jan Enkitu li toki e ni
to me it is not clear, what kepeken is doing here.
Ouch! 'kulupu'.

about the shepherd, may be stress that the animals were domestic and he was an overseer of them, not their guide.
The the expression would be even longer, Iafraid.

suno pi jan sewi An li anpa poka mi.
may be kama anp
But why 'kama'?

tenpo pimeja wan la jan Kikamesi li unpa e olin mi
from the subsequent text it sould be wile or kama unpa. not unpa yet!
From the context it is: WHEN this one night comes, THEN he will unpa. That is why there is no 'kama' or 'wile'.

jan Enkitu li pilin e uta pi jan Kikamesi kepeken uta ona
is it really a french kiss in the text?
All copies of the epic are pakala here, so we do not have even the dialogue between the two. All text of the last part, except the very first line, is my own. A kiss on the lips not neccesarily involves a French kiss. And kiss between men has been common in Middle East for centuries:
Bible, Proverbs 24:26 (NRSV) wrote:One who gives an honest answer
gives a kiss on the lips.

jan-ante
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:05 pm

Re: jan Kikamesi. jan lawa pi ma tomo Uluku

Postby jan-ante » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:50 pm

ale li pona mute. tenpo ni la o utala e jan Humbaba (Huwawa)

User avatar
jan Ote
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:15 am
Location: ma Posuka
Contact:

Re: jan Kikamesi. jan lawa pi ma tomo Uluku

Postby jan Ote » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:47 am

mi pilin. mi pilin e ni: wan pi nanpa wan pi sitelen toki ni li suli li pakala. mi wile pali pona e ni.

janKipo
Posts: 3037
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: jan Kikamesi. jan lawa pi ma tomo Uluku

Postby janKipo » Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:07 am

Unpapa?

just 'mi wile pona e ni' will do

o awen sitelen e sitelen toki ni

User avatar
jan Ote
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:15 am
Location: ma Posuka
Contact:

Re: jan Kikamesi. jan lawa pi ma tomo Uluku

Postby jan Ote » Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:02 am

The full revised text is here:
http://tokipl.wikidot.com/tptext:jan-kikamesi-1

NB. The text uses:

janKipo
Posts: 3037
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: jan Kikamesi. jan lawa pi ma tomo Uluku

Postby janKipo » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:46 am

Of course, bulls, while strong, are not used for their strength, oxen are, whatever the difference may be.

Using 'mani' does clarify somewhat, though -- a reason to have it (though what we are to make of "a strong euro v a weak dollar" i'm not sure.)

User avatar
jan Ote
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:15 am
Location: ma Posuka
Contact:

Re: jan Kikamesi. jan lawa pi ma tomo Uluku

Postby jan Ote » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:57 pm

True, my mistake. Bulls are uncastrated males, domesticated or not. They are strong and untamed, aggresive, dangerous. These are mentioned in the story. Castrated male bovines, called oxen, are used as draft animals, because they are strong, but submissive.

User avatar
jan Josan
Posts: 326
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:41 pm
Location: ma tomo Nujoka
Contact:

Re: jan Kikamesi. jan lawa pi ma tomo Uluku

Postby jan Josan » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:20 pm

Sorry to bring this up when you are well into the next chapter, but I just had a thought:

jan Ote wrote:jan Enkitu li pilin e uta pi jan Kikamesi kepeken uta ona. jan Kikamesi li pilin e uta pi jan Enkitu kepeken uta ona.


Maybe this could be: jan Enkitu en jan Kikamesi li wan e uta ona. It seems to express more a kiss of 'unity' to me, rather than a kiss of 'feeling', which is what I expect at this point.


Return to “kama sona toki”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron