Proposed revision to Chinese character set
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:51 pm
Hey everyone!
I don't know much Toki Pona, but as I was looking through http://tokipona.net/tp/classicwordlist.aspx, I'd like to suggest an alternative character set that more closely matches the meaning of the characters in modern Mandarin Chinese.
ante: 变 (change) → 异 (different, differ)
e: 把→着. The way 把 is used in Chinese is noun + 把 + direct object + verb, and it feels confusing to read it as noun + verb + 把 + direct object as in Toki Pona. It feels more natural to read e as 着, which is often used as noun + verb + 着 + direct object. It does however extraneously convey a sort of progressive tense.
en: 又→和. Connecting nouns is basically the dictionary definition of 和, whereas 又 is used as a correlative conjunction for adjective sand clauses.
esun: 市, same as the Japanese transcription. I'm not sure why a hanzi character isn't provided for this.
ijo: 事→物, as in Japanese. 事 is more about abstract things like tasks.
ike: 坏 (huài) is more commonly used in Mandarin, but the current 歹 (dǎi) will probably be understood fine, and is simpler to write.
ilo: 匕 (spoon, dagger) → 具 (tool), as in Japanese
kama: the current 到 isn't a great match, but I can't think of anything better
kasi: 木→植. 木 is about wood specifically, while 植 means plant.
kulupu: both 组 and 群 (jp) are fine, though they only really mean group and don't evoke society or communal. 社 (shè) can mean both society and group, so that might be closer.
kute: 耳 (ear) → 听 (to hear, listening)
la: 喇→啦. Both are just phonetic transcriptions, but 啦 is more commonly used.
lape: 觉 can also mean to feel/think, so I think 眠 (as in Japanese) is better.
~~lete: 冰 (ice, cold) → 冷 (cold)~~ nvm I think 冰 is better because it can capture lete's meaning of "to chill"
li: 哩 (phonetic transcription of li) → 又, which can be used correlatively as noun + 又 + verb + 又 + verb, or as noun + 又 + verb, which adds the meaning of also.
linja: 糸 (fine silk) → 线 (string, cord)
~~lipu: 叶 (tree leaf, page) → 纸 (paper) or 页 (page, classifier for pages or sheets)~~ 叶 is fine
mani: 元 (Chinese currency unit, original) → 钱 (money)
moku: 菜 (food, vegetables) → 食 (food, to eat). Using 菜 as a verb would be ridiculous.
mu: 吽 (roar of an animal, bellow of rage) → 咪 or 喵 (meow)
mute: 大 (big) → 多 (many, much)
namako: (none currently) → 余 (extra, surplus, remnant)
nanpa: 个 (classifier, individual) → 数 (number) or 第 (forms ordinal numbers, but before the number)
o: 令 (to command, to cause someone to do something) → 哎 (āi, hey, a call to get someone's attention). Another possibility is 请, which means please, or to ask someone to do something.
pakala: 打 (hit) → 破 (to break, to damage)
pali: 工 (work, noun only) → 作 (work, to do)
palisa: 支 (to support, raise, classifier for rods) → 棍, 杖, and 竿 might all be fine.
selo: 甲 (shell, nails, armor) → 皮 (skin, peel)
seme: 什 (what, but doesn't make sense as a single character, also a literary term for ten in fractions) → 何 (literary term for what, which)
sijelo: 身 is more restricted to biological bodies, so I'd suggest 体 if we want to include inorganic or more abstract bodies too
sike: 回 (return, to circle around) → 圆 (round, circle) or 圈 (ring, circle, enclose)
suli: 高 (tall, high) → 大 (big)
tan: 从 (from) → 由 (from, by means of, due to, origin, reason)
tawa: 去 (go) → 到 (arrive/reach, but also can be used as a preposition). 对 would be best to mean "to"/"for", but doesn't have the meaning of "to go".
tomo: 穴 (cave, hole) → 房 (house, building, room)
unpa: commenting on the Japanese here: 盛 (serving of food, popular) → 性 (nature, sex)
utala: 斗 (more general term for conflict) seems better than 战 (to fight, war)
Of these, I'd say 菜 for moku, 大 for mute, 甲 for selo, 回 for sike, 高 for suli, and 穴 for tomo are the most off.
Some of my suggested replacement characters are more complicated to write, but I think they're truer to the original meanings, and it'd be really cool if we could have a word-by-word transcription of Toki Pona that a Chinese speaker with no knowledge of Toki Pona could understand.
(For reference, it looks like the current Chinese character set was proposed from viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1519
I don't know much Toki Pona, but as I was looking through http://tokipona.net/tp/classicwordlist.aspx, I'd like to suggest an alternative character set that more closely matches the meaning of the characters in modern Mandarin Chinese.
ante: 变 (change) → 异 (different, differ)
e: 把→着. The way 把 is used in Chinese is noun + 把 + direct object + verb, and it feels confusing to read it as noun + verb + 把 + direct object as in Toki Pona. It feels more natural to read e as 着, which is often used as noun + verb + 着 + direct object. It does however extraneously convey a sort of progressive tense.
en: 又→和. Connecting nouns is basically the dictionary definition of 和, whereas 又 is used as a correlative conjunction for adjective sand clauses.
esun: 市, same as the Japanese transcription. I'm not sure why a hanzi character isn't provided for this.
ijo: 事→物, as in Japanese. 事 is more about abstract things like tasks.
ike: 坏 (huài) is more commonly used in Mandarin, but the current 歹 (dǎi) will probably be understood fine, and is simpler to write.
ilo: 匕 (spoon, dagger) → 具 (tool), as in Japanese
kama: the current 到 isn't a great match, but I can't think of anything better
kasi: 木→植. 木 is about wood specifically, while 植 means plant.
kulupu: both 组 and 群 (jp) are fine, though they only really mean group and don't evoke society or communal. 社 (shè) can mean both society and group, so that might be closer.
kute: 耳 (ear) → 听 (to hear, listening)
la: 喇→啦. Both are just phonetic transcriptions, but 啦 is more commonly used.
lape: 觉 can also mean to feel/think, so I think 眠 (as in Japanese) is better.
~~lete: 冰 (ice, cold) → 冷 (cold)~~ nvm I think 冰 is better because it can capture lete's meaning of "to chill"
li: 哩 (phonetic transcription of li) → 又, which can be used correlatively as noun + 又 + verb + 又 + verb, or as noun + 又 + verb, which adds the meaning of also.
linja: 糸 (fine silk) → 线 (string, cord)
~~lipu: 叶 (tree leaf, page) → 纸 (paper) or 页 (page, classifier for pages or sheets)~~ 叶 is fine
mani: 元 (Chinese currency unit, original) → 钱 (money)
moku: 菜 (food, vegetables) → 食 (food, to eat). Using 菜 as a verb would be ridiculous.
mu: 吽 (roar of an animal, bellow of rage) → 咪 or 喵 (meow)
mute: 大 (big) → 多 (many, much)
namako: (none currently) → 余 (extra, surplus, remnant)
nanpa: 个 (classifier, individual) → 数 (number) or 第 (forms ordinal numbers, but before the number)
o: 令 (to command, to cause someone to do something) → 哎 (āi, hey, a call to get someone's attention). Another possibility is 请, which means please, or to ask someone to do something.
pakala: 打 (hit) → 破 (to break, to damage)
pali: 工 (work, noun only) → 作 (work, to do)
palisa: 支 (to support, raise, classifier for rods) → 棍, 杖, and 竿 might all be fine.
selo: 甲 (shell, nails, armor) → 皮 (skin, peel)
seme: 什 (what, but doesn't make sense as a single character, also a literary term for ten in fractions) → 何 (literary term for what, which)
sijelo: 身 is more restricted to biological bodies, so I'd suggest 体 if we want to include inorganic or more abstract bodies too
sike: 回 (return, to circle around) → 圆 (round, circle) or 圈 (ring, circle, enclose)
suli: 高 (tall, high) → 大 (big)
tan: 从 (from) → 由 (from, by means of, due to, origin, reason)
tawa: 去 (go) → 到 (arrive/reach, but also can be used as a preposition). 对 would be best to mean "to"/"for", but doesn't have the meaning of "to go".
tomo: 穴 (cave, hole) → 房 (house, building, room)
unpa: commenting on the Japanese here: 盛 (serving of food, popular) → 性 (nature, sex)
utala: 斗 (more general term for conflict) seems better than 战 (to fight, war)
Of these, I'd say 菜 for moku, 大 for mute, 甲 for selo, 回 for sike, 高 for suli, and 穴 for tomo are the most off.
Some of my suggested replacement characters are more complicated to write, but I think they're truer to the original meanings, and it'd be really cool if we could have a word-by-word transcription of Toki Pona that a Chinese speaker with no knowledge of Toki Pona could understand.
(For reference, it looks like the current Chinese character set was proposed from viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1519