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jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona - Page 16 - Toki Pona Forums

jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Translation: Toki Pona content in other languages
Tradukado: Tokipono en aliaj lingvoj
janKipo
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Re: jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Postby janKipo » Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:04 am

Problems with coming in in the middle of things after a while away: irrelevant mindset.
1. It's had to figure out whether "bass, "low" "deep", etc. all go together in every languague, even in every language which has ready access on the net, since the ones I know well enough to figure out are all in the Europen frame and the ones I don't know either give definitions in the same language (so unreadable) or in English (so useless). I don't see the "natural" connection, but there may well be one. For now, I guess tp is a language in the European tradition, to be expanded if new data comes in.

2. Mindset

3. 'S1 la S2' is equally "When S1 then S2", literally "on the condition that S1, then S2", however that conditioning may be defined.

4. The only theoretical problem with yours is the "put the basic sort of thing first" principle and what you have is not two wheels but a thing with two wheels. Not sure how firm the principle is, though.

5. The no 'mute'-yes 'mute' is traditional, but 'kin' does work in some mysterious way.

6. We don't do well on the dimensions of 'suli' (etc.) I suppose they are 'sinpin' (high, tall and no deep) and 'supa' (long, wide, thick -- no distinction and no deep again), not to mention the non-spatial dimensions, When it b3ecomes a problem, a solution will emerge, I hope.

7. I confess I used your notes on this. "wild" for people tends to be 'jan soweli' and for animals 'soweli pi tomo ala', with some random 'jan (pi tan) nena' and the like.

8. Yeah, it doesn't seem worthwhile to create a word for dustbins ('poki weka' for starters) and then for their lids (no ideas).

9. Not bad for "carefully"

10. Mindset. I forget the basic meaning in favor of the usual application.

Yes, it's looking pretty good at this point.

janChowlett
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Re: jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Postby janChowlett » Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:31 am


janKipo
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Re: jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Postby janKipo » Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:58 pm

"Dumbledore and Prof. McGonagall lowered their heads over several warn clothes. A very small boy was in the clothes and slept soundly. The two could only look [lukin taso] at the boy. The two could see the cut on his face. below his quantity of black [don't need 'kule'] hair. the cut was strange looking like a lightning bolt.
"Is he alive? [oops, another possible reading that fits naturally into this context, since 'ona' isn't really appropriate. maybe just 'lon ni?' "There?"] said Prof. McGonagall quietly.
"Yes" said Dumbledore "He will have that scar [the mark of that cut]forever"
"Oh, Dumbledore, can you do something toward making that scar go away?"
"No. If I could, I wouldn't do it. The scar can be very useful. I have a scar on the top of my foot (leg? i.e. hip?). That scar is like a map of the London Underground. Oh!, Hagrid [o] give the little one to me. Today's work [pi] is good for us."
Dumbledore took Harry in his arms and turned to the Dursley's house."

Assuming this is about right, it read very smoothly and rapidly. Nice.

janChowlett
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Re: jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Postby janChowlett » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:33 pm

Top notch! Only a few comments, all minor:

1) The boy is "barely visible", which is why I modified ken with taso, not lukin. It's possible there's a better phrasing, though.
2) Dumbledore's scar is on his knee. The issue here is that "noka" refers to the whole leg-foot assembly, so I was aiming for simply "high on my leg-foot-limb". An obvious word for "half" or "midpoint" would help; but really it's not that important where on the leg it is.
3) The "a." is deliberately a sentence by itself - the original has "Well." as a sort of verbal shaking of oneself. Given that, is my "o" correctly placed?
4) "pali ni lon tenpo ni li pona tawa mi mute." is the worst-understandable phrase this week. It should be "I suppose we'd better get it over with", which I was attempting to render as "Doing this now would be good for us."

janKipo
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Re: jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Postby janKipo » Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:12 pm

"barely visible" looks more like 'ken lukin lili' or maybe 'ken lili lukin'. 'taso" doesn't seem to be "only" in the diminishing sense as opposed to the exclusive one (if thye are really different ultimately).
"knee' is 'insa noka' and 'insa' gets used for the middle of all sorts of things (indeed, 'centre' is the first meaning in pu).
Still need an
o' to address Hagrid. To be sure, it can collapse with the imperative 'o', but not with the comma in the way. So, 'jan Kakuti o, o pana e ona lili tawa mi.'
or ' jan Kakuti o pana e ona lili tawa mi.'. An exclamation point on 'a' might not be a bad idea either, but that is an unrelated point.
'ni li pona mute: mi mute li pali e ni lon tempo tin.'

janChowlett
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Re: jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Postby janChowlett » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:32 am


janKipo
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Re: jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Postby janKipo » Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:25 pm

Yes, 'ni'; my finger control is going fast, I fear (not a good thing for a person who only types for activity).

"I can. May I say "Farewell" to him, sir?" said Hagrid [Strictly by pu, vocatives go only at the beginning of sentences. I can see some problems with sticking them in the middle even though they clearly belong there sometimes. But I don't see problems with them at the end.]
He bowed his big hairy head over Harry and kissed him. His mouth was like bristle ("hard hair", better than "stone string" but maybe "iron wire"). For a little while, Hagrid howled like a mad dog (or at least a devastated one). ("rough" is maybe 'pi nena lili' or 'pi pini lili')
"Quiet down!" said Prof McGonagall "You'll make the Muggles."
"I'm sorry" said Hagrid. He got a robe of circular color (Is this an idiom we have discussed before?) and lowered his head into it. Hagrid said "But I hate [insert stutters at will] that Lili and James are dead and [strictly no 'en' between sentences] little Harry is going to live with Muggles" (maybe 'awen' for first 'lon').
"Indeed. In fact, all this is very bad. But get ahold of ["control"] yourself. If you don't control yourself, people will see us." whispered Prof. McGonagall. She touched Hagrid's foot (leg? thigh? this all seems kinda weird) in a friendly way [strictly, this, because of the 'pi' modifies either 'jan Kakuti' or 'noka', but I suppose it is meant to modify 'pilin'; so 'lon nasin...']

You're getting good at this. It almost reads itself.

janChowlett
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Re: jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Postby janChowlett » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:41 pm

Arm! Oops, should be "luka", not "noka". That would be a very different relationship....

The "robe of circular colour" is a "large spotted handkerchief" - not an idiom we've discussed. The handkerchief itself should probably be "len oko" or perhaps "len nena"; I'm not sure where else to go for "spotted".

I realise that we can't have 'en' between sentences, but is there another way to represent "something something ni: <sentence one> and <sentence two>"?

Thanks for the encouragement! We're nearing the end of the chapter now - just under two pages to go.

janKipo
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Re: jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Postby janKipo » Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:30 pm

Yeah! Not that I haven't enjoyed this conversation.
Oops! I shoulda figured luka/noka out.
'len nena'? Oh! "nose"! at least 'len pi sike kule (lili)' "cloth with colored circles"
The RHE (right hand end) problem for Display (all those sentences after 'ni' that can't be fitted into the grammar of the encompassing sentence) doesn't have an official -- or even a regularly adhered to ad hoc -- solution. I tend (when I think of it) to use semicolons instead of periods and put an en dash at the end. Frankly, I'd prefer an 'en' between, but I can see the ambiguities (or at least garden paths) that ensue.

janChowlett
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Re: jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Postby janChowlett » Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:30 am



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