jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Translation: Toki Pona content in other languages
Tradukado: Tokipono en aliaj lingvoj
janKipo
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Re: jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Postby janKipo » Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:53 pm

I worry a bit about Memrise as a tool for learning words.

Dumbledore went over the curb of the lawn and up to [I would have said 'kama'] the entrance door of the house (? all these apparently doubled 'lon's and 'tawa's are confusing. Why not just 'tawa (or 'kama lon') lupa tomo' Am I missing a point here?) He put Harry down in front of the door [Ahah! 'lupe tawa' for "door" to differentiate from 'lupa lukin' for "window". Sorry] and got a letter from his overcoat and put this letter inside Harry's high clothes ['seli'?] and went to the other two [why 'lon', again? -- or maybe why not 'kama' for 'tawa'?]. These three waited and watched the little pile of clothes for fifteen breaths [works out to about 15 seconds unless magicians are slow breathers]. The top of Hagrid's body fell and rose. Prof. McGonagall blinked rapidly. The light on Dumbledore's half-moon glasses was not bright ['suno ala lukin']
Finally, Dumbledore sais "Well! Our work is done. We have no cause/reason to stay here ['tan ala pi awen (pi lon) ni']. We can go to the party?" ['lon'?]
"True" said Hagrid, as though he was talking with a cloth in front of his mouth ['len pi lon sinpin'] ["talking through a muffler"?] "I need to get rid of the motorcycle. Good night, Prof. McGonagall, Headmaster Dumbledore." [vocatives first, apparently. and 'o' after the name, not before.]
Hagrid did not cry using the inside of his gloves [?doesn't quite compute] and mounted ['lon'?] the powerful bike and started the power of this vehicle using his feet [didn't he just start/turn on the bike?].
Dumbledore said "Prof, McGonagall, ['o' after noun] I think that I will see you in a little while [or "for a little while", I never get those straight]. He bent down and raised his head toward Prof. McGonagall. Prof, McGonagall breathed through her nose to her glasses. [? hard to describe indeed]

Still pretty smooth, but with a couple of places where I don't see quite what you were saying, so just went with what made sense to me in context.

janChowlett
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Re: jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Postby janChowlett » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:39 am

Bother, I forgot to come back and reply. Let's see now...

Yes, seli, not sewi, oops. Blankets.

The repeated "lon" after "tawa" is just a systemic error. I'll try not to do that again.

According to a quick google, the average resting breathing rate for adult humans is around 12-20 breaths per minute - the book says they wait "for a full minute". Once a second would seem rather quick - but it's just numbers, anyway.

There's actually no reference to Dumbledore's glasses here (for once!). It's "the twinkling light that shone from his eyes" - I went for "the starlight", but perhaps "suno sama mun lili" (light like stars) may be better. Also, the verb here is "seemed to have gone out" - probably should be "li pini suno".

Hagrid is talking "in a muffled voice", so your literal reading is pretty much what I was aiming for.

Vocatives before, yes; but Hagrid never does. I think it's a dialect thing; and a couple of weeks back we had a brief discussion that decided there's probably no grammatical issue with them being at the end. I may have been placing my "o" incorrectly for a while, though.

Hagrid "wiped his eyes on his sleeve". Presumably "li telo ala" can be "to dry", as "li telo" can be "to make wet"? The "inside of gloves" problem can perhaps be resolved as "kepeken len pi insa luka sama" - "using the clothing of his elbow"?

As it happens, no - Hagrid doesn't just "start" the bike - he "kicks the engine into life". One assumes it's a proper old-school bike with a foot-operated ignition.

Aiming for "in a little while". And Prof McGonagall's bodily function (eww) is "blew her nose".

Rather more issues than I'd like, but nothing too insurmountable I hope.

janKipo
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Re: jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Postby janKipo » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:05 pm

Apparently I am a fast breather. Ah, well...
I was flummoxed and went back to an earlier discussion of his glasses, though this didn't quite fit. Not sure how to make it clearer.
The dialect notion is interesting, since, if anyone has a dialect in this story, it is Hagrid. But I think the 'o' still goes after, even if the vocative does, too.
The rewrite of "wiped with his sleeve" would probably help and I probably still wouldn't get it right.
I'm not sure of a good way to say "kick start" except maybe 'open 'noka' which would have just mystified me, I suspect.

My being in a fog and some ahrd cases but all coming out fairly well,

janChowlett
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Re: jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Postby janChowlett » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:15 pm

janChowlett wrote:jan Tanpeto li tawa sewi pi kiwen sinpin lili pi ma kasi li kama lon lupa tawa tomo. ona li anpa e jan Ari lon sinpin pi lupa tawa li kama jo e sitelen toki tan len selo sama li pana e sitelen toki ni lon insa pi len seli pi jan Ari li tawa jan tu ante. jan wan tu ni li awen li lukin e nena len lili lon tenpo pi kon luka luka luka*. sewi pi sijelo pi jan Kakuti li anpa li sewi. jan pi pana sona Makonaka li pini wawa li open, e oko sama. suno sama mun lili lon oko pi jan Tanpeto li pini suno.

pini la nimi "a" li toki pi jan Tanpeto. "pali mi mute li pini. mi mute li jo e tan ala pi awen pi lon ni. mi mute li ken tawa musi."

nimi "lon" li toki pi jan Kakuti pi nasin ni: ona li toki kepeken len pi lon sinpin pi uta sama. kin la "mi wile weka e ilo tawa pi sike tu, ni. tenpo pimeja pona, jan pi pana sona Makonaka o, jan sewi pi pana sona Tanpeto o."

jan Kakuti li telo ala e oko sama kepeken len pi insa pi luka sama li tawa sewi pi ilo tawa wawa pi sike tu li open e wawa pi ilo tawa ni kepeken noka sama. ilo ni li kalama sama soweli suli pi linja uta li sewi lon kon li tawa weka lon tenpo pimeja.

jan Tanpeto li toki e ni: "o jan pi pana sona Makonaka, mi pilin e ni: tenpo kama lili la mi lukin e sina." ona li anpa li sewi, e lawa sama tawa jan pi pana sona Makonaka. jan pi pana sona Makonaka li kon tan nena sama tawa len oko sama.


jan Tanpeto li tawa pini ante nasin. lon ni la ona li kama jo e ilo Suno Pini pi kule sama kiwen mani walo. tenpo wan la jan Tanpeto li pilin e ilo ni. sike suno luka luka tu li tawa wawa lon suno nasin. nasin Pipe li suno pi kule loje jelo. jan Tanpeto li ken lukin e soweli pi linja uta pi kule linja. soweli ni li tawa weka lon nasin ante. jan Tanpeto li ken lili lukin e nena pi len seli lon sinpin pi tomo nanpa tu tu.

nimi "jan Ari, o tawa pona" li toki pi jan Tanpeto pi kalama lili. ona li sinpin ante*. len selo pi jan Tanpeto li kalama kon la jan Tanpeto li tawa weka.

* Trying out a new phrase for "turn".

Right, that's only a short bit - but by stopping there I've left one paragraph (albeit a long 'un) in the first chapter, which I shall therefore aim to finish by Christmas! :D

janKipo
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Re: jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Postby janKipo » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:00 pm

Dumbledore went to the other end of the street. There he got the silver colored Sun Done tool. Once Dumbledore touched this tool. Twelve years went quickly in the regular light. Privet Street shown orange. Dumbledore could see a stried cat. It went away on a different street. Dumbldore mmade the pile of blankets in front of house number four look small.
"Farewell, Harry", Dumbledore said quietly. He turned ['ante sinpin' works better and, of course, 'sike lili'] When Dumbledore's overcoat rustled, he went away.

Aside from a couple of questions, this was very smooth. Nice work. Looking forward to what Father Christmas brings.

janChowlett
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Re: jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Postby janChowlett » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:20 am

Right, let's quickly address the questions today.

Not "twelve years", it should be "twelve balls of light". But 'sike suno' is too strongly "rotation around the sun", so perhaps "suno sike" (ball-shaped light) would be better?

Not "regular light", it should be "street lamps". Which is what we get for having 'nasin' mean two related by seriously different concepts! (So, all together, "Twelve balls of light sped back to the street lamps" or similar)

Not "made ~ look small", it should be "could just see the ~". This came up a couple of sections ago, where you suggested "ken lili lukin" as better than "ken taso lukin". I have to say, I'm struggling to see how you're getting to "made ~ look small".

Otherwise, it's more than close enough!

janKipo
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Re: jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Postby janKipo » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:36 am

Sorry about "regular lights", I got disoriented in the twelve years and couldn't get back to normal,
'ken lili lukin' "slight possibility of seeing" (kl)l, which is what was aimed at, versus k(ll) 'is able to appear small", what I read (I don't know why, I guess it just seemed a magician sort of thing)
I really think that tp is going to have to develop a bit more grammar (cases, markers, whatever). These sorts of ambiguities are just far too common to be acceptable in a language, Restoring the old 'pi' may be a first step on one problem.

janChowlett
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Re: jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Postby janChowlett » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:04 pm

janChowlett wrote:jan Tanpeto li tawa pini ante nasin. lon ni la ona li kama jo e ilo Suno Pini pi kule sama kiwen mani walo. tenpo wan la jan Tanpeto li pilin e ilo ni. suno sike luka luka tu li tawa wawa lon suno nasin. nasin Pipe li suno pi kule loje jelo. jan Tanpeto li ken lukin e soweli pi linja uta pi kule linja. soweli ni li tawa weka lon nasin ante. jan Tanpeto li ken lili lukin e nena pi len seli lon sinpin pi tomo nanpa tu tu.

nimi "jan Ari, o tawa pona" li toki pi jan Tanpeto pi kalama lili. ona li sinpin ante*. len selo pi jan Tanpeto li kalama kon la jan Tanpeto li tawa weka.


kon lili li kon lon kasi sinpin pi nasin Pipe. nasin Pipe li kalama ala li pakala ala li lon anpa pi sewi pi pimeja sama telo sitelen. jan ala li ken pilin e ni: ijo nasa li lon ni. jan Ari Pota li sike, tan monsi, tawa sinpin. taso ona li pini ala lape. luka lili li pini lon selo pi sitelen toki. jan Ari li lape kin li sona ala e ni: jan mute li sona e ijo ona. jan Ari li sona ala e ni: tenpo kama, la meli Taseli li open e lupa tawa li pana anpa e poki pi telo walo, la kalama suli [monsuta] pi meli Taseli li pini lape e jan Ari. jan Ari li sona ala e ni: jan Tateli li pilin pi utala lili e jan Ari lon tenpo esun pi mute lili. jan Ari li ken ala sona e ni: tenpo ni kin la jan mute li toki lon ma ni: jan ala li ken alasa e ma ni. jan mute ni li sewi e poki telo sama li toki pi kalama lili e ni: "mi mute li telo tan jan Ari Pota. ona li mije lili pi moli ala!"

janKipo
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Re: jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Postby janKipo » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:20 pm

A little breeze blew on the hedges of Privet Lane. Privet Lane was quiet and calm and under a sky as dark as ink. No one would think that here was anything strange there. Harry Potter turned around(over?), but he did not wake up. (His) little hands ended on an envelope. (?there has to be a better way to say this). Harry slept on and did not know that many people knew about him. Harry did not know that in the future when Mrs. Dursley would open the door and put down the milk bottle, her loud noise would wake him. Harry didn't know that Mr, Dursley would be peeved with him for several weeks. (I think 'pilin pi utala lili tawa' rather than 'e') (really, only peeved?) Harry could not know that even then many people talked in this place which no one could hunt (? I think the intention is "talked about the place no one could find" but I don't see how to get there from here). These many people raised their glasses and whispered "We are drink to Harry Potter. He is the boy who did not die." (prob 'telo tawa'

No problems except what it means in a few places.

janChowlett
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Re: jan Ari Pota en kiwen pi jan sona

Postby janChowlett » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:29 pm

Very close.

Harry's little hand closed around the letter, rather than ending on the cover of it. That said, the sense is pretty similar.

"jan Tateli", not "Taseli" (yeah, I know. Blame JKR). So it's Dudley, and this is a tactile "pilin" rather than an emotional one. He "prodded and poked" Harry. Perhaps a case for verbal "luka"?

The intention in the place where people are talking is that they are "meeting in secret" - hence aiming for "in a place no-one could find". This sentence did cause me the biggest problems this week.

Once we sort those out, however, that is the end of Chapter 1!


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