Page 2 of 2

Re: sitelen toki pi jan Esopo (Aesop)

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:41 pm
by janLuka
mi ante e toki mi kepeken sona pi sina mute. tenpo ni la ni li pona ala pona?

jan-ante, i like your phrasing for the moral but I want to keep it general (if one encourages wrongdoing, they are also doing wrong), not "if someone encourages someone else to kill you, he is also your enemy", which is one specific case of the general statement.

what is the difference between "suli e ijo" and "kama suli e ijo?" can they both mean "make something bigger?"

kulupu ni: "pali ike" li ken toki e "to do wrong/to do evil" ?

Re: sitelen toki pi jan Esopo (Aesop)

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:50 pm
by janKipo
Still need 'jan pi kalama musi' in the first line.
I'm not that there is a difference between 'suli e ijo' and 'kama suli e ijo', but, if told there was one ans asked to figure it out, I would suggest that the longer form probably suggested the increasing was a side effect of what one doing, whereas the shorter would be either neutral or come down for that being your chief interest. This reading is influenced heavily by English "come to" but seems consistent with other things said about 'kama'. A military bugle boy's music (?) is primarily to stir others up to fight on, so the short form would be the right one for the captor to use.
Well 'pali ike' literally means "to work poorly" open to a variety of interpretations, including, possibly, "to do evil" (which is a poor -- unpona -- thing to do)OOn the other hand, 'pali e ike' fairly unequivocally says "to do/make evil (things)", so is the safer route to take.

Re: sitelen toki pi jan Esopo (Aesop)

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:48 pm
by jan-ante
janLuka wrote:jan-ante, i like your phrasing for the moral but I want to keep it general (if one encourages wrongdoing, they are also doing wrong), not "if someone encourages someone else to kill you, he is also your enemy", which is one specific case of the general statement.
up to you, but jan ike could be understood verbally - bad guy, although it could be also "enimy" according to tp idiom.
what is the difference between "suli e ijo" and "kama suli e ijo?" can they both mean "make something bigger?"

well, really little difference, i think. kama suli e is more formal and emphatic

Re: sitelen toki pi jan Esopo (Aesop)

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:56 pm
by jan-ante
janKipo wrote:tan ni li pona tawa moli sina. Needs a subject between 'ni LA'. "your lethal traveling good"?

no. parse formally:
we have tan ni li => tan ni is subject => it is noun => it means this cause/reason => this reason is good for your death
mii o moli e sina "I, kill you!" I suppose you want "I should kill you" which comes out as 'mi wile moli e sina',
yes, let we kill you

Re: sitelen toki pi jan Esopo (Aesop)

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:12 pm
by janKipo
Yup! projective reading again. Sorry! And all that threw me off on the ending, too. Leave it be; it's a clever way to it.
'o mi mute li moli e sina' seems more hortatory than prudential, which I took to be the point.