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Fortuna by Corvus Corax, medivial latin lyrics - Toki Pona Forums

Fortuna by Corvus Corax, medivial latin lyrics

Translation: Toki Pona content in other languages
Tradukado: Tokipono en aliaj lingvoj
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janMato
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Fortuna by Corvus Corax, medivial latin lyrics

Postby janMato » Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:35 pm

Fortuna
Fortuna, Fortuna, Fortune bona primitus

Fortune bona primitus voluntas est inversa,
In meque michi penitus novercatur aversa.

Nam ferre scimus eum Fortune clipeum.

Fate
Fate! Fate! Highest good fate,
Highest good fate, you favor has gone away
On me, my remorse, I'm cursed, loathed,
But now, we know to carry fate's shield.

Nasin Suli pi Kama Pona pi Kama mani!

Nasin Suli! Nasin Suli! Nasin pi tempo kama li wan li pona!
Jan pi tempo kama li wan li pona! sina weka e olin,
mi pilin e ni: tan ala mi pini la mi pilin ike! ala li wile e ike tawa mi, ala li utala pilin e mi,
taso tenpo ni la mi ala li sona li wile jo e ni: lipu awen sike pi Nasin Suli pi Kama Pona pi Kama mani!

Feel free to correct my Latin or tp translation.

janKipo
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Re: Fortuna by Corvus Corax, medivial latin lyrics

Postby janKipo » Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:28 am

Well, Raven's is different from the Orff Carmina Burana but maybe also from the Benedictbueren mss. My medieval Latin is worse than my classical (which is more than fifty years out of practice) so I can't comment on the trat (and can't make out a few of the words at all -- after my time, as they say). But I get the general idea (which is the one always for Fortuna -- it turns on you and you learn to bear it or not).

So, why 'nasin suli' "Great Path" for "fate, luck, chance"? I would think of just 'kama' "happenstance" or, if that is too modern, 'wile' "Necessity" and whence "to Future good at coming money" or whatever? Not there at all (more likely about chick magnetism anyhow).
An 'o' if this is addressed to Fortuna, which there is not indication that it is.
"Road to the future is one and good"? The Latin seems to be "the goods of Fortune at first" but that is ciceronian not 1200
"Fortune's good will is turned upside down" I guess"You throw away love [for me]" makes the same point.
Next line is late Latin, no clues, but the Eng and the tp don't coincide well "Nobody wants evil for me, nobody fights thoughtfully against me" I suppose 'ala' is really 'ali' (worst possible minimal pair). 'tan ala mi pini. " the final my not source" needs something, but I can't figure out what.

"But now not us (I suppose "we all" again) know and want to have this: the constant flat circle of the great path to future good and future money" I suppose 'awen' is 'kiwen' "round metal flat thing" = "shield" and whence all the rest. It just says
"We know (how) to carry this shield of Fortune" ' mi ali li sona e nasin ni: mi ... How the Hell do we say "carry" ... e lipu kiwen sike pi whatever is the way to say Fortune.'

janMato
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Re: Fortuna by Corvus Corax, medivial latin lyrics

Postby janMato » Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:54 pm


janKipo
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Re: Fortuna by Corvus Corax, medivial latin lyrics

Postby janKipo » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:01 pm

Well, let's see. The Medievals had Fortune as abstract but personal -- and female (yes, this is conflicted), so 'jan sewi' is not inappropriate. The point of fortune songs is always that Fortune changes (see Orff's "Fortune, like the moon"), so, emphasizing the good is just wishful thinking, not accurate. And, as noted, money is not the main interest usually, chicks is.
'wan la' expects 'tu la,' a list. 'nanpa wan la,' "first," works much the same way. I like 'open la,' "in the beginning," but that is not a widely shared preference, I think.
'nasin' is not great as "idea," though it covers some sense of that, 'pilin' is also possible, and even 'kon.'
"because of all I have done" (where is that, by the way) 'tan pali mi ali,' at a guess, but where to put it -- presumably at the end of the sentence in the prep place.
'ona LI weka..." though I still don't see where you get all the rest there.
Your "curse," etc. look pretty good.
Still, 'mi ali' not 'mi ala'
Still no solution for "carry." It is not clear just what the last line means "We know how to bear the shield" "We know that we bear the shield" "We know that we must bear the shield" and I get the idea that it is the weight, not the protective use, that is involved here.


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