how to say it good: must

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ôÏÔÏ éÇÏÒØ

Re: how to say it good: must

Post by ôÏÔÏ éÇÏÒØ »

Then you can say just: ma mi li pona tawa mi. (I like/love my country)>> I would say: mi wile e ma mama mi lon pilin mi (I want my motherland in myheart; my country is female...)>> ni li pona ala pona?>> jan Pusa>> --- On Mon, 10/11/08, cxielamiko <cxielamiko@yahoo.com> wrote:>> From: cxielamiko <cxielamiko@yahoo.com>> Subject: [tokipona] how to say it good: must> To: tokipona@yahoogroups..com> Date: Monday, 10 November, 2008, 9:59 PM>> Toki!> How do members translate in the toki pona the following sentence: "I> must love my homeland."?>> Kiavoje la membroj tradukos en toki pona gxin: "Mi devas ami mian> naskigxlandon. "?>
agneau belanyek

Re: how to say it good: must

Post by agneau belanyek »

--- In tokipona@yahoogroups.com, "toto1980toto1980toto1980"<toto1980@...> wrote:>> > > Toki!How do members translate in the toki pona the following> > sentence: "Imust love my homeland."?> > I think it should be said this way: ma mi li wile pona tawa mi.> oops. Does that mean also "My coutry wish good to me"? Sorry. But> really isn't it a stupid idea that someone MUST love?I think it is unwise to translate things out of context with anylanguages, but especially so with toki pona.Without any other info, I would take "I must love my homeland" not tomean that it is compulsory to love my homeland, but more to mean thatit is desirable to love my home land.so I would say: mi olin e ma mama mi la, ni li pona.of course i might be wrong. it could well mean "i love my homelandvery much." e.g. "I have never travelled more than 100 miles fromwhere I was born. I must love my homeland".in which case i'd say: mi olin mute e ma mama mi.i take your point that the idea of compulsory love is absurd, even inEnglish - but if that is REALLY what it means, the I would go withjan Kanso "mi wile olin a ma mama mi." (toki pona makes littledistinction between intention and compulsion, especially when itrefers to "mi")take "I must eat my veg"...If it means "I am resolved to, i fully intend to eat my veg" then Iwould say "mi wile moku e kili"but if (as it more likely does) it means that I am being made to eatmy veg, say by person X, i would instead say: "jan X li wile e ni: mimoku e kili".
ôÏÔÏ éÇÏÒØ

Re: Re: how to say it good: must

Post by ôÏÔÏ éÇÏÒØ »

>> --- In tokipona@yahoogroups.com, "toto1980toto1980toto1980"> <toto1980@...> wrote:> >>> > > > Toki!How do members translate in the toki pona the following> > > sentence: "Imust love my homeland."?>> > > I think it should be said this way: ma mi li wile pona tawa mi.>> > oops. Does that mean also "My coutry wish good to me"? Sorry. But> > really isn't it a stupid idea that someone MUST love?>> I think it is unwise to translate things out of context with any> languages, but especially so with toki pona.>> Without any other info, I would take "I must love my homeland" not to> mean that it is compulsory to love my homeland, but more to mean that> it is desirable to love my home land.>> so I would say: mi olin e ma mama mi la, ni li pona.>> of course i might be wrong. it could well mean "i love my homeland> very much." e.g. "I have never travelled more than 100 miles from> where I was born. I must love my homeland".>> in which case i'd say: mi olin mute e ma mama mi.>> i take your point that the idea of compulsory love is absurd, even in> English - but if that is REALLY what it means, the I would go with> jan Kanso "mi wile olin a ma mama mi." (toki pona makes little> distinction between intention and compulsion, especially when it> refers to "mi")>> take "I must eat my veg"...>> If it means "I am resolved to, i fully intend to eat my veg" then I> would say "mi wile moku e kili">> but if (as it more likely does) it means that I am being made to eat> my veg, say by person X, i would instead say: "jan X li wile e ni: mi> moku e kili".>>I'm still not sure that the word olin is appropriate here. And I'm not sure thatyou need to express such complex ideas in TP. As far as I understand, TP is madeto simplify the ideas. So I think it's better to say just whether you like yourcountry or not (or if it is good to you or not) rather than express any desireto love. It's too complex and unclear.
rugxa_korvo

Re: how to say it good: must

Post by rugxa_korvo »

How about this, for a general sense of 'I must love my country', in thesense of "It is good for me to love my country":ni li pona tawa mi: ma mama mi li pona tawa mi.ORni li pona tawa mi: ma mama mi li lon pilin mi.How does that sound?It's been years since I was very active with the Toki, so I'll admitI'm rusty, but these ideas occurred to me, and I thought I'd share themin case they were helpful.jan Nate
toto1980toto1980toto1980

Re: how to say it good: must

Post by toto1980toto1980toto1980 »

--- In tokipona@yahoogroups.com, "rugxa_korvo" <nbomb3@...> wrote:>> How about this, for a general sense of 'I must love my country', in the> sense of "It is good for me to love my country":> ni li pona tawa mi: ma mama mi li pona tawa mi.> OR> ni li pona tawa mi: ma mama mi li lon pilin mi.>> How does that sound?>> It's been years since I was very active with the Toki, so I'll admit> I'm rusty, but these ideas occurred to me, and I thought I'd share them> in case they were helpful.>> jan Nate>Thanks, that's the best reply, I think. But why you guys call yournative country " ma mama mi"? If I didn't know English I would thinkthat means: "my mother's land".
AJK

Re: Re: how to say it good: must

Post by AJK »

2008/11/13 toto1980toto1980toto1980 <toto1980@yandex.ru>:> Thanks, that's the best reply, I think. But why you guys call your> native country " ma mama mi"? If I didn't know English I would think> that means: "my mother's land".it DOES mean that, and that isn't wrong.and ma mama mi just sounds cute :P>--http://espe.ranto.nlhttp://lost.eu/78c6e
John E Clifford

Re: Re: how to say it good: must

Post by John E Clifford »

________________________________From: AJK <ikojba@gmail.com>To: tokipona@yahoogroups.comSent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:01:33 AMSubject: Re: [tokipona] Re: how to say it good: must2008/11/13 toto1980toto1980tot o1980 <toto1980@yandex. ru>:> Thanks, that's the best reply, I think. But why you guys call your> native country " ma mama mi"? If I didn't know English I would think> that means: "my mother's land".it DOES mean that, and that isn't wrong.and ma mama mi just sounds cute :P>--Right! Also, of course, the most natural meaning of "my mothers country" wouldbe "ma pi mama mi".[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
galactonerd

Re: how to say it good: must

Post by galactonerd »

--- In tokipona@yahoogroups.com, "cxielamiko" <cxielamiko@...> wrote:>> Toki!> How do members translate in the toki pona the following sentence: "I> must love my homeland."?>> Kiavoje la membroj tradukos en toki pona gxin: "Mi devas ami mian> naskigxlandon."?>In Japanese, there is a good construction for "must;" in this case,it would be, "(Watashi no) kuni o ai shinakereba narimasen," or,roughly, "If I don't love my country, it's not all right."So in Toki Pona, it would be, "mi olin ala e ma mi la, ni li ponaala."I don't think "wile" is good for this purpose, because there arethings we have to do even if we don't want to. One can argue that wedon't "have to" do anything, but I think the "X li Y ala la, ni lipona ala" construction expresses it better than "wile."Example:mi wile pana e mani tawa kulupu lawa. I want to give money to thegovernment.mi pana ala e mani tawa kulupu lawa la, ni li pona ala. If I don'tgive money to the government, this is not good.jan Sosuwa
jean-luc DESTREE

RE: Re: how to say it good: must

Post by jean-luc DESTREE »

jan Sosuwa o toki !toki ni li pona mute tawa mi. li jo e nimi mute taso mi pona e ni : li lon.I always was disturbed by the two main meanings of "wile" : "ought to/devoir"and "want/vouloir", it's absolutely not the same.jan JanlukaTo: tokipona@yahoogroups.comFrom: galactonerd@yahoo.comDate: Fri, 14 Nov 200819:09:12 +0000Subject: [tokipona] Re: how to say it good: must--- In tokipona@yahoogroups.com, "cxielamiko" <cxielamiko@...> wrote:>> Toki!>How do members translate in the toki pona the following sentence: "I> must lovemy homeland."?> > Kiavoje la membroj tradukos en toki pona gxin: "Mi devas amimian> naskigxlandon."?>In Japanese, there is a good construction for "must;" inthis case, it would be, "(Watashi no) kuni o ai shinakereba narimasen," or,roughly, "If I don't love my country, it's not all right."So in Toki Pona, itwould be, "mi olin ala e ma mi la, ni li pona ala."I don't think "wile" is goodfor this purpose, because there are things we have to do even if we don't wantto. One can argue that we don't "have to" do anything, but I think the "X li Yala la, ni li pona ala" construction expresses it better than "wile."Example:miwile pana e mani tawa kulupu lawa. I want to give money to the government.mipana ala e mani tawa kulupu lawa la, ni li pona ala. If I don't give money tothe government, this is not good.jan Sosuwa_________________________________________________________________Téléphonez gratuitement à tous vos proches avec Windows Live Messenger  ! Téléchargez-le maintenant ! http://www.windowslive.fr/messenger/1.asp[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rugxa_korvo

Re: how to say it good: must

Post by rugxa_korvo »

> > Thanks, that's the best reply, I think.SHUCKS!> > But why you guys call your> > native country " ma mama mi"? If I didn't know English I wouldthink> > that means: "my mother's land".> it DOES mean that, and that isn't wrong.>> and ma mama mi just sounds cute :PI agree! It does sound cute. And though I didn't realize it earlier,it isn't wrong either to be saying "my mother's land", though I thinkit could also be translated perhaps less idiomatically as potentiallymeaning "mother-like land", couldn't it?PS: It DOES sound cute. a a a :^)
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