«New England» li seme lon toki pona?

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Edward O''Connor

«New England» li seme lon toki pona?

Post by Edward O''Connor »

toki!«New England» li seme lon toki pona?ona li ken ala ken toki e «ma pi Inli sin»?ona li ken ala ken toki e «ma Nuwinli»?pona,--jan Tetohober0@gmail.com
Matthew Martin

Re: «New England» li seme lon toki pona?

Post by Matthew Martin »

"ma Nuwinli" li pona.Translating the "new" puts you on the slippery slope of tracking downwhat "England" means as in "land of the Angles" Now Angle comes fromthe word for "narrow", as in "the people who lived by the narrowriver" So at the bottom of the slippery slope we have "new land ofthe people who live by the narrow river"Ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelnma sin pi jan mute pi telo linjaOr translating what "York" in "New York" means "boar settlement" andthen trying to translate New York as "new wild boar town"ma sin pi soweli pi kon jakiRef. http://www.northeastengland.talktalk.net/YorkCity.htmmi tawa,jan Matthew MartinOn Dec 3, 2007 7:22 PM, Edward O'Connor <hober0@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>> toki!>> «New England» li seme lon toki pona?>> ona li ken ala ken toki e «ma pi Inli sin»?> ona li ken ala ken toki e «ma Nuwinli»?>> pona,>> --> jan Teto> hober0@gmail.com>>
Helmut Voigt

Re: «New England» li seme lon toki pona?

Post by Helmut Voigt »

ali o, toki! How many (or few) people in the world know what "York" means so as to understand "ma sin pi soweli pi kon jaki"? mi kin pilin e ni: ma tomo Nujoku anu ma tomo Nujo li pona. The usual way seems to be to translate geographical names if their components are obvious, such as "New Zealand" to German "Neuseeland". In Chinese, only "new" is translated as "xin" while "Zealand" is written phonetically a "Xilan" resulting in "Xin Xilan". pona, jan Elumutu  Matthew Martin <matt@suburbandestiny.com> schrieb: "ma Nuwinli" li pona.Translating the "new" puts you on the slippery slope of tracking downwhat "England" means as in "land of the Angles" Now Angle comes fromthe word for "narrow", as in "the people who lived by the narrowriver" So at the bottom of the slippery slope we have "new land ofthe people who live by the narrow river"Ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelnma sin pi jan mute pi telo linjaOr translating what "York" in "New York" means "boar settlement" andthen trying to translate New York as "new wild boar town"ma sin pi soweli pi kon jakiRef. http://www.northeastengland.talktalk.net/YorkCity.htmmi tawa,jan Matthew MartinOn Dec 3, 2007 7:22 PM, Edward O'Connor <hober0@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>> toki!>> «New England» li seme lon toki pona?>> ona li ken ala ken toki e «ma pi Inli sin»?> ona li ken ala ken toki e «ma Nuwinli»?>> pona,>> --> jan Teto> hober0@gmail.com>> Beginnen Sie den Tag mit den neuesten Nachrichten. Machen Sie Yahoo! zu Ihrer Startseite!
Matthew Martin

Re: «New England» li seme lon toki pona?

Post by Matthew Martin »

>How many (or few) people in the world know what "York" means so as to> understand "ma sin pi soweli pi kon jaki"?Maybe *"reducio ad absurdum" hasn't been translated into toki poka yet. Sigh.More examples:Novgorod. Russian town, always transliterated into English, althoughobviously means "New City"Nuyorican. Portmanteau of New York an Puerto Rican. The "nu" part ispurely phonetic and doesn't mean new in Spanish or English.mi tawa, jan Matthew Martinreducio ad absurdum: wan li kama nasin e ijo pilin kepeken nimi mutekepeken nimi nasinOn Dec 5, 2007 3:33 AM, Helmut Voigt <akesi_palisa@yahoo.de> wrote:>>>>>>> ali o, toki!> How many (or few) people in the world know what "York" means so as to> understand "ma sin pi soweli pi kon jaki"? mi kin pilin e ni: ma tomo Nujoku> anu ma tomo Nujo li pona. The usual way seems to be to translate> geographical names if their components are obvious, such as "New Zealand" to> German "Neuseeland". In Chinese, only "new" is translated as "xin" while> "Zealand" is written phonetically a "Xilan" resulting in "Xin Xilan".> pona,> jan Elumutu>> Matthew Martin <matt@suburbandestiny.com> schrieb:>
John E Clifford

Re: «New England» li seme lon toki pona?

Post by John E Clifford »

Well, the trl of 'Novgorod' is obvious only if you know some Russian, which most English speakers do not; even 'New Gorod' is pushing it too far.  And 'nu' of course does mean 'new' in English, though here I suspect that it is being used only phonetically, which I take it is your point.I don't follow your exposition of reductio, mainly, I suspect, because of the polysemy of the words used: 'a unit brings a mental thing to system using many words using systematic words.'   But, in any case, I don't see where 'many words' comes in. 12pt;">----- Original Message ----From: Matthew Martin <matt@suburbandestiny.com>To: tokipona@yahoogroups.comSent: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 7:38:36 AMSubject: Re: [tokipona] «New England» li seme lon toki pona?>How many (or few) people in the world know what "York" means so as to> understand "ma sin pi soweli pi kon jaki"?Maybe *"reducio ad absurdum" hasn't been translated into toki poka yet. Sigh.More examples:Novgorod. Russian town, always transliterated into English, althoughobviously means "New City"Nuyorican. Portmanteau of New York an Puerto Rican. The "nu" part ispurely phonetic and doesn't mean new in Spanish or English.mi tawa, jan Matthew Martinreducio ad absurdum: wan li kama nasin e ijo pilin kepeken nimi mutekepeken nimi nasinOn Dec 5, 2007 3:33 AM, Helmut Voigt <akesi_palisa@ yahoo.de> wrote:>>>>>>> ali o, toki!> How many (or few) people in the world know what "York" means so as to> understand "ma sin pi soweli pi kon jaki"? mi kin pilin e ni: ma tomo Nujoku> anu ma tomo Nujo li pona. The usual way seems to be to translate> geographical names if their components are obvious, such as "New Zealand" to> German "Neuseeland" . In Chinese, only "new" is translated as "xin" while> "Zealand" is written phonetically a "Xilan" resulting in "Xin Xilan".> pona,> jan Elumutu>> Matthew Martin <matt@suburbandestin y.com> schrieb:> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
Matthew Martin

Re: «New England» li seme lon toki pona?

Post by Matthew Martin »

I had in mind this gloss: "one makes the feeling thing crazy with manywords with crazy words"Or, "one makes ideas absurd with lengthy discussion and nonsense. "oops, I mean "nimi nasa" not "nimi nasin"reducio ad absurdum: wan li kama nasin e ijo pilin kepeken nimi mutekepeken nimi *nasa*I'm not sure if there is a quick way to say "to argue by assumingsomething is true, then demonstrating that such an assumption leads toa ridiculous conclusion and thereby showing the original propositionto be false," since I can't even say that briefly in English.On Dec 5, 2007 10:09 AM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:>> Well, the trl of 'Novgorod' is obvious only if you know some Russian, which> most English speakers do not; even 'New Gorod' is pushing it too far. And> 'nu' of course does mean 'new' in English, though here I suspect that it is> being used only phonetically, which I take it is your point.> I don't follow your exposition of reductio, mainly, I suspect, because of> the polysemy of the words used: 'a unit brings a mental thing to system> using many words using systematic words.' But, in any case, I don't see> where 'many words' comes in.>>>> ----- Original Message ----> From: Matthew Martin <matt@suburbandestiny.com>> To: tokipona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 7:38:36 AM> Subject: Re: [tokipona] «New England» li seme lon toki pona?>>>>> >How many (or few) people in the world know what "York" means so as to> > understand "ma sin pi soweli pi kon jaki"?>> Maybe *"reducio ad absurdum" hasn't been translated into toki poka yet.> Sigh.>> More examples:>> Novgorod. Russian town, always transliterated into English, although> obviously means "New City">> Nuyorican. Portmanteau of New York an Puerto Rican. The "nu" part is> purely phonetic and doesn't mean new in Spanish or English.>> mi tawa, jan Matthew Martin>> reducio ad absurdum: wan li kama nasin e ijo pilin kepeken nimi mute> kepeken nimi nasin>> On Dec 5, 2007 3:33 AM, Helmut Voigt <akesi_palisa@ yahoo.de> wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ali o, toki!> > How many (or few) people in the world know what "York" means so as to> > understand "ma sin pi soweli pi kon jaki"? mi kin pilin e ni: ma tomo> Nujoku> > anu ma tomo Nujo li pona. The usual way seems to be to translate> > geographical names if their components are obvious, such as "New Zealand"> to> > German "Neuseeland" . In Chinese, only "new" is translated as "xin" while> > "Zealand" is written phonetically a "Xilan" resulting in "Xin Xilan".> > pona,> > jan Elumutu> >> > Matthew Martin <matt@suburbandestin y.com> schrieb:> >>>> ________________________________> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.>
John E Clifford

Re: «New England» li seme lon toki pona?

Post by John E Clifford »

Thanks.  Also 'kama nasa' apparently.----- Original Message ----From: Matthew Martin <matt@suburbandestiny.com>To: tokipona@yahoogroups.comSent: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 9:16:51 AMSubject: Re: [tokipona] «New England» li seme lon toki pona?I had in mind this gloss: "one makes the feeling thing crazy with manywords with crazy words"Or, "one makes ideas absurd with lengthy discussion and nonsense. "oops, I mean "nimi nasa" not "nimi nasin"reducio ad absurdum: wan li kama nasin e ijo pilin kepeken nimi mutekepeken nimi *nasa*I'm not sure if there is a quick way to say "to argue by assumingsomething is true, then demonstrating that such an assumption leads toa ridiculous conclusion and thereby showing the original propositionto be false," since I can't even say that briefly in English.On Dec 5, 2007 10:09 AM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo. com> wrote:>> Well, the trl of 'Novgorod' is obvious only if you know some Russian, which> most English speakers do not; even 'New Gorod' is pushing it too far. And> 'nu' of course does mean 'new' in English, though here I suspect that it is> being used only phonetically, which I take it is your point.> I don't follow your exposition of reductio, mainly, I suspect, because of> the polysemy of the words used: 'a unit brings a mental thing to system> using many words using systematic words.' But, in any case, I don't see> where 'many words' comes in.>>>> ----- Original Message ----> From: Matthew Martin <matt@suburbandestin y.com>> To: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 7:38:36 AM> Subject: Re: [tokipona] «New England» li seme lon toki pona?>>>>> >How many (or few) people in the world know what "York" means so as to> > understand "ma sin pi soweli pi kon jaki"?>> Maybe *"reducio ad absurdum" hasn't been translated into toki poka yet.> Sigh.>> More examples:>> Novgorod. Russian town, always transliterated into English, although> obviously means "New City">> Nuyorican. Portmanteau of New York an Puerto Rican. The "nu" part is> purely phonetic and doesn't mean new in Spanish or English.>> mi tawa, jan Matthew Martin>> reducio ad absurdum: wan li kama nasin e ijo pilin kepeken nimi mute> kepeken nimi nasin>> On Dec 5, 2007 3:33 AM, Helmut Voigt <akesi_palisa@ yahoo.de> wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ali o, toki!> > How many (or few) people in the world know what "York" means so as to> > understand "ma sin pi soweli pi kon jaki"? mi kin pilin e ni: ma tomo> Nujoku> > anu ma tomo Nujo li pona. The usual way seems to be to translate> > geographical names if their components are obvious, such as "New Zealand"> to> > German "Neuseeland" . In Chinese, only "new" is translated as "xin" while> > "Zealand" is written phonetically a "Xilan" resulting in "Xin Xilan".> > pona,> > jan Elumutu> >> > Matthew Martin <matt@suburbandesti n y.com> schrieb:> >>>> ____________ _________ _________ __> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
John E Clifford

Re: «New England» li seme lon toki pona?

Post by John E Clifford »

And, 'one,' in this variable sense, is probably 'ona', not 'wan.'----- Original Message ----From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>To: tokipona@yahoogroups.comSent: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 9:23:41 AMSubject: Re: [tokipona] «New England» li seme lon toki pona?Thanks.  Also 'kama nasa' apparently.----- Original Message ----From: Matthew Martin <matt@suburbandestin y.com>To: tokipona@yahoogroup s.comSent: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 9:16:51 AMSubject: Re: [tokipona] «New England» li seme lon toki pona?I had in mind this gloss: "one makes the feeling thing crazy with manywords with crazy words"Or, "one makes ideas absurd with lengthy discussion and nonsense. "oops, I mean "nimi nasa" not "nimi nasin"reducio ad absurdum: wan li kama nasin e ijo pilin kepeken nimi mutekepeken nimi *nasa*I'm not sure if there is a quick way to say "to argue by assumingsomething is true, then demonstrating that such an assumption leads toa ridiculous conclusion and thereby showing the original propositionto be false," since I can't even say that briefly in English.On Dec 5, 2007 10:09 AM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo. com> wrote:>> Well, the trl of 'Novgorod' is obvious only if you know some Russian, which> most English speakers do not; even 'New Gorod' is pushing it too far. And> 'nu' of course does mean 'new' in English, though here I suspect that it is> being used only phonetically, which I take it is your point.> I don't follow your exposition of reductio, mainly, I suspect, because of> the polysemy of the words used: 'a unit brings a mental thing to system> using many words using systematic words.' But, in any case, I don't see> where 'many words' comes in.>>>> ----- Original Message ----> From: Matthew Martin <matt@suburbandestin y.com>> To: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 7:38:36 AM> Subject: Re: [tokipona] «New England» li seme lon toki pona?>>>>> >How many (or few) people in the world know what "York" means so as to> > understand "ma sin pi soweli pi kon jaki"?>> Maybe *"reducio ad absurdum" hasn't been translated into toki poka yet.> Sigh.>> More examples:>> Novgorod. Russian town, always transliterated into English, although> obviously means "New City">> Nuyorican. Portmanteau of New York an Puerto Rican. The "nu" part is> purely phonetic and doesn't mean new in Spanish or English.>> mi tawa, jan Matthew Martin>> reducio ad absurdum: wan li kama nasin e ijo pilin kepeken nimi mute> kepeken nimi nasin>> On Dec 5, 2007 3:33 AM, Helmut Voigt <akesi_palisa@ yahoo.de> wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ali o, toki!> > How many (or few) people in the world know what "York" means so as to> > understand "ma sin pi soweli pi kon jaki"? mi kin pilin e ni: ma tomo> Nujoku> > anu ma tomo Nujo li pona. The usual way seems to be to translate> > geographical names if their components are obvious, such as "New Zealand"> to> > German "Neuseeland" . In Chinese, only "new" is translated as "xin" while> > "Zealand" is written phonetically a "Xilan" resulting in "Xin Xilan".> > pona,> > jan Elumutu> >> > Matthew Martin <matt@suburbandesti n y.com> schrieb:> >>>> ____________ _________ _________ __> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
Josan Kapo

Re: «New England» li seme lon toki pona?

Post by Josan Kapo »

> I'm not sure if there is a quick way to say "to argue by assuming> something is true, then demonstrating that such an assumption leads to> a ridiculous conclusion and thereby showing the original proposition> to be false," since I can't even say that briefly in English.>I think its called "garden pathing through the stinging nettles." :)
John E Clifford

Re: Re: «New England» li seme lon toki pona?

Post by John E Clifford »

Thst sounds like modus tollendo ponens  (or-elim), not reductio, which is not-int, so starts 'lon ala tan' but I not sure how to go on (I think 'ni:' the a sentence or two that gives the right conditions, though most of the vocabulary is not yet developed).----- Original Message ----From: AJK <ikojba@gmail.com>To: tokipona@yahoogroups.comSent: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 3:18:26 PMSubject: Re: [tokipona] Re: «New England» li seme lon toki pona?in toki pona one could say: lon tan lon ala2007/12/5, Josan Kapo <mail@jonathangabel. com>:>> > I'm not sure if there is a quick way to say "to argue by assuming> > something is true, then demonstrating that such an assumption leads to> > a ridiculous conclusion and thereby showing the original proposition> > to be false," since I can't even say that briefly in English.> >>> I think its called "garden pathing through the stinging nettles." :)>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links>>>>-- Can you trust your computer? - http://www.gnu. org/philosophy/ can-you-trust. html<>< * Mi estas Kristana Esperantisto * <>< Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
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