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"subliminal" prepositions with toki, tawa... (Re: dubo pri "toki (+pi)") - Toki Pona Forums

"subliminal" prepositions with toki, tawa... (Re: dubo pri "toki (+pi)")

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Marcos CRUZ
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"subliminal" prepositions with toki, tawa... (Re: dubo pri "toki (+pi)")

Postby Marcos CRUZ » Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:31 am


> If it is true that "toki X" means (inter alia, of course) "talks
about X," then, on the analogy
> with "tawa X" meaning "goes to", a right groups starts after "toki"
on the analogy with "tawa tomo
> ona" "goes to his home" (and so like a preposition). Similarly,
apparently, "speaks in toki
> pona" is "toki toki pona," not "toki pi toki pona" (of courase,
while this is the logical way to
> say this, it may not be correct -- I sure hope the "lon" version
isn't right, but there is always
> "kepeken").

Right. IMHO, those official "assumed" "subliminal" prepositions
inside some verbs seems to make things easier at first, but make
things much more difficult at last.

>As for the official line on when to use "e," the usual story is that
"e" is not used
> if the referent is not affected by the action of the verb: the
subject of a talk is not affected
> by being talked about; indeed, on the words spoken are affected
(brought into being in this case)
> by the speaking (cf. the home is not affected by being gone to, but
something picked and moved
> there obviously is). I'm not sure that this distinction is in fact
uased consistently or whether
> it ultimately makes any sense.

I never read that distinction... Is it a convention or a rule? I
think it's dangerous because it is not objective, e.g.: does
"lukin" "affect" its object? What really "affect" means? Why not "mi
lukin sina" whenever "sina" doesn't realise it's being looked at?! In
fact, we should always say "mi lukin pipi" instead of "mi lukin e
pipi"... I'm sure no pipi will feel "affected" at all :-D

IMHO, that distinction is unnecesary and make many things more
difficult. *Meaning* ambiguity is one thing you can let (trusting on
the context) or avoid to some degree (using modifiers), but when you
are not sure what is the role of a word (verb, object, modifier,
preposition...), well, ni li pona ala kin!

jan Mako

--
http://alinome.net


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