AW: Re: Dave''s writing exercises #4

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Helmut Voigt

AW: Re: Dave''s writing exercises #4

Postby Helmut Voigt » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:35 pm


ali o, toki!
After reading this interesting two-language text, I have added some translation
suggestions, too. as it's rather long, I'll append it as an MSWord file. I don't
know the English original, but I think that such exercises can give us many
hints on what should be improved or made clearer in toki pona.
Thanx, Dave and Salikh!
jan Elumutu

--- salikh.zakirov <salikh@gmail.com> schrieb am Fr, 14.8.2009:


Von: salikh.zakirov <salikh@gmail.com>
Betreff: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4
An: tokipona@yahoogroups.com
Datum: Freitag, 14. August 2009, 7:03


 



Hi, Dave!

I have tried to translate your toki pona poem translation back to
English *before* looking at the English original.
Sorry if my toki pona competency is not high enough to get to the
hidden meaning, but I hope you find it helpful.

> moli li ala.
Death is nothing.

> mi tawa tomo poka.
I go to the near building (room?).

> tenpo pini la seme mi mute li lon.
In the past, what mine (multiple my things) were.
(* This feels a little bit ungrammatic, as there is no question.
Or where you intending "what of us" or something like that? *)

> mi mute li lon kin.
We exist indeed.

> o toki e mi kepeken nimi mi.
Please talk to me my name.
(* I think you were trying to say "please call me by my name",
and if that's true, "o nimi e mi kepeken nimi mi" seems a bit better *)

> o toki pona pali e mi.
Report to me.
(* or is that something like "recite to me"? *)

> sama tenpo pini la o pana e kon pi pilin pona.
In the moment of past, give me an air of good feeling!

> o musi. o pali e sinpin pona.
Enjoy yourself! Make a good face.

> o pilin e mi.
Feel me! (* or "Think of me!" ?*)

> o toki tawa jan sewi sike mi.
Talk to my round god!
(* Sorry, I could not get what "round god" means *)

> o toki e nimi mi lon tomo.
Please tell my name in the house.

> o toki pona pali e nimi mi.
Please recite my name.

> ali li lon sama. ali li awen. ala li tu.
Everything is the same. Everything stays. Nothing splits.
(* Or was that "nothing changes" intended? In that case, how about
"ala li kama ante"? *)

> sina lukin ala e mi. o awen e mi lon lawa sina.
You don't look at me. Please remember me.

> tenpo lili la mi awen tawa sina.
(* or is that "I will prevent you from moving" i.e. "I will
bind/stop/set at rest you"?
If so, how about "mi awen e tawa sina" or "mi awen tawa e sina"?
Anyway, it is entirely unclear to me if it is reasonable to use "tawa"
as modifier in places where it looks like a preposition and require
reader to deduce from context.
"e" is binding stronger than "tawa", so using "e" would resolve the
parsing ambiguity *)

> mi lon poka.
I am near.

> ali li pona. ala li lon tenpo pini. ala li weka.
Everything is okay. Nothing is in the past. Nothing will leave.

> tenpo kama la ali li pona mute.
Everything will get much better.

> tenpo kama la mi mute li lon poka jan sewi.
We all will come to god.

-----
Now that I have completed line by line translation, I will try to
rephrase the whole passage as far as my understanding permits.

Death is nothing.
I go to the nearby building.
In the past, I had many things. We existed indeed.
Please call me by my name. Recite to me.
In the moment of past, give me an air of good feeling!
Enjoy yourself! Smile! Think about me! Talk to my round god!
Please tell my name in the house. Please recite my name.
Everything is the same. Everything stays. Nothing splits.
You don't look at me. Please remember me.
Soon I will put you to rest. I am near.
Everything is okay. Nothing is in the past. Nothing will leave.
Everything will get much better.
We all will come to god.

----
Now comes the moment for me to look at the English original
and enjoy a rare moment of comprehension :)

Wow! At least I was close with "pray" :)
Thank for the interesting translation!
Salikh.



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


John E Clifford

Re: AW: Re: Dave''s writing exercises #4

Postby John E Clifford » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:43 pm


pakala! mi kama  jo ala e lipupi ilo Word.




________________________________
From: Helmut Voigt <akesi_palisa@yahoo.de>
To: tokipona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 12:35:11 PM
Subject: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4


ali o, toki!
After reading this interesting two-language text, I have added some translation
suggestions, too. as it's rather long, I'll append it as an MSWord file. I don't
know the English original, but I think that such exercises can give us many
hints on what should be improved or made clearer in toki pona.
Thanx, Dave and Salikh!
jan Elumutu

--- salikh.zakirov <salikh@gmail. com> schrieb am Fr, 14.8.2009:

Von: salikh.zakirov <salikh@gmail. com>
Betreff: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4
An: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Datum: Freitag, 14. August 2009, 7:03



Hi, Dave!

I have tried to translate your toki pona poem translation back to
English *before* looking at the English original.
Sorry if my toki pona competency is not high enough to get to the
hidden meaning, but I hope you find it helpful.

> moli li ala.
Death is nothing.

> mi tawa tomo poka.
I go to the near building (room?).

> tenpo pini la seme mi mute li lon.
In the past, what mine (multiple my things) were.
(* This feels a little bit ungrammatic, as there is no question.
Or where you intending "what of us" or something like that? *)

> mi mute li lon kin.
We exist indeed.

> o toki e mi kepeken nimi mi.
Please talk to me my name.
(* I think you were trying to say "please call me by my name",
and if that's true, "o nimi e mi kepeken nimi mi" seems a bit better *)

> o toki pona pali e mi.
Report to me.
(* or is that something like "recite to me"? *)

> sama tenpo pini la o pana e kon pi pilin pona.
In the moment of past, give me an air of good feeling!

> o musi. o pali e sinpin pona.
Enjoy yourself! Make a good face.

> o pilin e mi.
Feel me! (* or "Think of me!" ?*)

> o toki tawa jan sewi sike mi.
Talk to my round god!
(* Sorry, I could not get what "round god" means *)

> o toki e nimi mi lon tomo.
Please tell my name in the house.

> o toki pona pali e nimi mi.
Please recite my name.

> ali li lon sama. ali li awen. ala li tu.
Everything is the same. Everything stays. Nothing splits.
(* Or was that "nothing changes" intended? In that case, how about
"ala li kama ante"? *)

> sina lukin ala e mi. o awen e mi lon lawa sina.
You don't look at me. Please remember me.

> tenpo lili la mi awen tawa sina.
(* or is that "I will prevent you from moving" i.e. "I will
bind/stop/set at rest you"?
If so, how about "mi awen e tawa sina" or "mi awen tawa e sina"?
Anyway, it is entirely unclear to me if it is reasonable to use "tawa"
as modifier in places where it looks like a preposition and require
reader to deduce from context.
"e" is binding stronger than "tawa", so using "e" would resolve the
parsing ambiguity *)

> mi lon poka.
I am near.

> ali li pona. ala li lon tenpo pini. ala li weka.
Everything is okay. Nothing is in the past. Nothing will leave.

> tenpo kama la ali li pona mute.
Everything will get much better.

> tenpo kama la mi mute li lon poka jan sewi.
We all will come to god.

-----
Now that I have completed line by line translation, I will try to
rephrase the whole passage as far as my understanding permits.

Death is nothing.
I go to the nearby building.
In the past, I had many things. We existed indeed.
Please call me by my name. Recite to me.
In the moment of past, give me an air of good feeling!
Enjoy yourself! Smile! Think about me! Talk to my round god!
Please tell my name in the house. Please recite my name.
Everything is the same. Everything stays. Nothing splits.
You don't look at me. Please remember me.
Soon I will put you to rest. I am near.
Everything is okay. Nothing is in the past. Nothing will leave.
Everything will get much better.
We all will come to god.

----
Now comes the moment for me to look at the English original
and enjoy a rare moment of comprehension :)

Wow! At least I was close with "pray" :)
Thank for the interesting translation!
Salikh.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Helmut Voigt

Re: AW: Re: Dave''s writing exercises #4

Postby Helmut Voigt » Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:25 am


mi ande e lipu toki mi li kama lipu toki "pdf". ken la, sina ken lukin e ona.
jan Elumutu

--- John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> schrieb am Do, 20.8.2009:


Von: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Betreff: Re: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4
An: tokipona@yahoogroups.com
Datum: Donnerstag, 20. August 2009, 19:43


 



pakala! mi kama jo ala e lipupi ilo Word.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Helmut Voigt <akesi_palisa@ yahoo.de>
To: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 12:35:11 PM
Subject: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4

ali o, toki!
After reading this interesting two-language text, I have added some translation
suggestions, too. as it's rather long, I'll append it as an MSWord file. I don't
know the English original, but I think that such exercises can give us many
hints on what should be improved or made clearer in toki pona.
Thanx, Dave and Salikh!
jan Elumutu

--- salikh.zakirov <salikh@gmail. com> schrieb am Fr, 14.8.2009:

Von: salikh.zakirov <salikh@gmail. com>
Betreff: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4
An: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Datum: Freitag, 14. August 2009, 7:03

Hi, Dave!

I have tried to translate your toki pona poem translation back to
English *before* looking at the English original.
Sorry if my toki pona competency is not high enough to get to the
hidden meaning, but I hope you find it helpful.

> moli li ala.
Death is nothing.

> mi tawa tomo poka.
I go to the near building (room?).

> tenpo pini la seme mi mute li lon.
In the past, what mine (multiple my things) were.
(* This feels a little bit ungrammatic, as there is no question.
Or where you intending "what of us" or something like that? *)

> mi mute li lon kin.
We exist indeed.

> o toki e mi kepeken nimi mi.
Please talk to me my name.
(* I think you were trying to say "please call me by my name",
and if that's true, "o nimi e mi kepeken nimi mi" seems a bit better *)

> o toki pona pali e mi.
Report to me.
(* or is that something like "recite to me"? *)

> sama tenpo pini la o pana e kon pi pilin pona.
In the moment of past, give me an air of good feeling!

> o musi. o pali e sinpin pona.
Enjoy yourself! Make a good face.

> o pilin e mi.
Feel me! (* or "Think of me!" ?*)

> o toki tawa jan sewi sike mi.
Talk to my round god!
(* Sorry, I could not get what "round god" means *)

> o toki e nimi mi lon tomo.
Please tell my name in the house.

> o toki pona pali e nimi mi.
Please recite my name.

> ali li lon sama. ali li awen. ala li tu.
Everything is the same. Everything stays. Nothing splits.
(* Or was that "nothing changes" intended? In that case, how about
"ala li kama ante"? *)

> sina lukin ala e mi. o awen e mi lon lawa sina.
You don't look at me. Please remember me.

> tenpo lili la mi awen tawa sina.
(* or is that "I will prevent you from moving" i.e. "I will
bind/stop/set at rest you"?
If so, how about "mi awen e tawa sina" or "mi awen tawa e sina"?
Anyway, it is entirely unclear to me if it is reasonable to use "tawa"
as modifier in places where it looks like a preposition and require
reader to deduce from context.
"e" is binding stronger than "tawa", so using "e" would resolve the
parsing ambiguity *)

> mi lon poka.
I am near.

> ali li pona. ala li lon tenpo pini. ala li weka.
Everything is okay. Nothing is in the past. Nothing will leave.

> tenpo kama la ali li pona mute.
Everything will get much better.

> tenpo kama la mi mute li lon poka jan sewi.
We all will come to god.

-----
Now that I have completed line by line translation, I will try to
rephrase the whole passage as far as my understanding permits.

Death is nothing.
I go to the nearby building.
In the past, I had many things. We existed indeed.
Please call me by my name. Recite to me.
In the moment of past, give me an air of good feeling!
Enjoy yourself! Smile! Think about me! Talk to my round god!
Please tell my name in the house. Please recite my name.
Everything is the same. Everything stays. Nothing splits.
You don't look at me. Please remember me.
Soon I will put you to rest. I am near.
Everything is okay. Nothing is in the past. Nothing will leave.
Everything will get much better.
We all will come to god.

----
Now comes the moment for me to look at the English original
and enjoy a rare moment of comprehension :)

Wow! At least I was close with "pray" :)
Thank for the interesting translation!
Salikh.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


John E Clifford

Re: AW: Re: Dave''s writing exercises #4

Postby John E Clifford » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:22 am


ken la 'pali e lipu pi toki "pdf"'  mi weka ala e ijo la ala li kama poka toki
sina




________________________________
From: Helmut Voigt <akesi_palisa@yahoo.de>
To: tokipona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:25:38 AM
Subject: Re: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4


mi ande e lipu toki mi li kama lipu toki "pdf". ken la, sina ken lukin e ona.
jan Elumutu

--- John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo. com> schrieb am Do, 20.8.2009:

Von: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo. com>
Betreff: Re: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4
An: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Datum: Donnerstag, 20. August 2009, 19:43



pakala! mi kama jo ala e lipupi ilo Word.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Helmut Voigt <akesi_palisa@ yahoo.de>
To: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 12:35:11 PM
Subject: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4

ali o, toki!
After reading this interesting two-language text, I have added some translation
suggestions, too. as it's rather long, I'll append it as an MSWord file. I don't
know the English original, but I think that such exercises can give us many
hints on what should be improved or made clearer in toki pona.
Thanx, Dave and Salikh!
jan Elumutu

--- salikh.zakirov <salikh@gmail. com> schrieb am Fr, 14.8.2009:

Von: salikh.zakirov <salikh@gmail. com>
Betreff: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4
An: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Datum: Freitag, 14. August 2009, 7:03

Hi, Dave!

I have tried to translate your toki pona poem translation back to
English *before* looking at the English original.
Sorry if my toki pona competency is not high enough to get to the
hidden meaning, but I hope you find it helpful.

> moli li ala.
Death is nothing.

> mi tawa tomo poka.
I go to the near building (room?).

> tenpo pini la seme mi mute li lon.
In the past, what mine (multiple my things) were.
(* This feels a little bit ungrammatic, as there is no question.
Or where you intending "what of us" or something like that? *)

> mi mute li lon kin.
We exist indeed.

> o toki e mi kepeken nimi mi.
Please talk to me my name.
(* I think you were trying to say "please call me by my name",
and if that's true, "o nimi e mi kepeken nimi mi" seems a bit better *)

> o toki pona pali e mi.
Report to me.
(* or is that something like "recite to me"? *)

> sama tenpo pini la o pana e kon pi pilin pona.
In the moment of past, give me an air of good feeling!

> o musi. o pali e sinpin pona.
Enjoy yourself! Make a good face.

> o pilin e mi.
Feel me! (* or "Think of me!" ?*)

> o toki tawa jan sewi sike mi.
Talk to my round god!
(* Sorry, I could not get what "round god" means *)

> o toki e nimi mi lon tomo.
Please tell my name in the house.

> o toki pona pali e nimi mi.
Please recite my name.

> ali li lon sama. ali li awen. ala li tu.
Everything is the same. Everything stays. Nothing splits.
(* Or was that "nothing changes" intended? In that case, how about
"ala li kama ante"? *)

> sina lukin ala e mi. o awen e mi lon lawa sina.
You don't look at me. Please remember me.

> tenpo lili la mi awen tawa sina.
(* or is that "I will prevent you from moving" i.e. "I will
bind/stop/set at rest you"?
If so, how about "mi awen e tawa sina" or "mi awen tawa e sina"?
Anyway, it is entirely unclear to me if it is reasonable to use "tawa"
as modifier in places where it looks like a preposition and require
reader to deduce from context.
"e" is binding stronger than "tawa", so using "e" would resolve the
parsing ambiguity *)

> mi lon poka.
I am near.

> ali li pona. ala li lon tenpo pini. ala li weka.
Everything is okay. Nothing is in the past. Nothing will leave.

> tenpo kama la ali li pona mute.
Everything will get much better.

> tenpo kama la mi mute li lon poka jan sewi.
We all will come to god.

-----
Now that I have completed line by line translation, I will try to
rephrase the whole passage as far as my understanding permits.

Death is nothing.
I go to the nearby building.
In the past, I had many things. We existed indeed.
Please call me by my name. Recite to me.
In the moment of past, give me an air of good feeling!
Enjoy yourself! Smile! Think about me! Talk to my round god!
Please tell my name in the house. Please recite my name.
Everything is the same. Everything stays. Nothing splits.
You don't look at me. Please remember me.
Soon I will put you to rest. I am near.
Everything is okay. Nothing is in the past. Nothing will leave.
Everything will get much better.
We all will come to god.

----
Now comes the moment for me to look at the English original
and enjoy a rare moment of comprehension :)

Wow! At least I was close with "pray" :)
Thank for the interesting translation!
Salikh.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


John E Clifford

Re: AW: Re: Dave''s writing exercises #4

Postby John E Clifford » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:34 pm


jan Tawita o, pona. (ona li pana e lipu ni tawa mi).  mi toki mute (mi wile e
ni: lipu mi li kama)




________________________________
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
To: tokipona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:22:35 AM
Subject: Re: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4


ken la 'pali e lipu pi toki "pdf"' mi weka ala e ijo la ala li kama poka toki
sina

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Helmut Voigt <akesi_palisa@ yahoo.de>
To: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:25:38 AM
Subject: Re: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4

mi ande e lipu toki mi li kama lipu toki "pdf". ken la, sina ken lukin e ona.
jan Elumutu

--- John E Clifford <kali9putra@ yahoo. com> schrieb am Do, 20.8.2009:

Von: John E Clifford <kali9putra@ yahoo. com>
Betreff: Re: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4
An: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Datum: Donnerstag, 20. August 2009, 19:43

pakala! mi kama jo ala e lipupi ilo Word.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Helmut Voigt <akesi_palisa@ yahoo.de>
To: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 12:35:11 PM
Subject: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4

ali o, toki!
After reading this interesting two-language text, I have added some translation
suggestions, too. as it's rather long, I'll append it as an MSWord file. I don't
know the English original, but I think that such exercises can give us many
hints on what should be improved or made clearer in toki pona.
Thanx, Dave and Salikh!
jan Elumutu

--- salikh.zakirov <salikh@gmail. com> schrieb am Fr, 14.8.2009:

Von: salikh.zakirov <salikh@gmail. com>
Betreff: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4
An: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Datum: Freitag, 14. August 2009, 7:03

Hi, Dave!

I have tried to translate your toki pona poem translation back to
English *before* looking at the English original.
Sorry if my toki pona competency is not high enough to get to the
hidden meaning, but I hope you find it helpful.

> moli li ala.
Death is nothing.

> mi tawa tomo poka.
I go to the near building (room?).

> tenpo pini la seme mi mute li lon.
In the past, what mine (multiple my things) were.
(* This feels a little bit ungrammatic, as there is no question.
Or where you intending "what of us" or something like that? *)

> mi mute li lon kin.
We exist indeed.

> o toki e mi kepeken nimi mi.
Please talk to me my name.
(* I think you were trying to say "please call me by my name",
and if that's true, "o nimi e mi kepeken nimi mi" seems a bit better *)

> o toki pona pali e mi.
Report to me.
(* or is that something like "recite to me"? *)

> sama tenpo pini la o pana e kon pi pilin pona.
In the moment of past, give me an air of good feeling!

> o musi. o pali e sinpin pona.
Enjoy yourself! Make a good face.

> o pilin e mi.
Feel me! (* or "Think of me!" ?*)

> o toki tawa jan sewi sike mi.
Talk to my round god!
(* Sorry, I could not get what "round god" means *)

> o toki e nimi mi lon tomo.
Please tell my name in the house.

> o toki pona pali e nimi mi.
Please recite my name.

> ali li lon sama. ali li awen. ala li tu.
Everything is the same. Everything stays. Nothing splits.
(* Or was that "nothing changes" intended? In that case, how about
"ala li kama ante"? *)

> sina lukin ala e mi. o awen e mi lon lawa sina.
You don't look at me. Please remember me.

> tenpo lili la mi awen tawa sina.
(* or is that "I will prevent you from moving" i.e. "I will
bind/stop/set at rest you"?
If so, how about "mi awen e tawa sina" or "mi awen tawa e sina"?
Anyway, it is entirely unclear to me if it is reasonable to use "tawa"
as modifier in places where it looks like a preposition and require
reader to deduce from context.
"e" is binding stronger than "tawa", so using "e" would resolve the
parsing ambiguity *)

> mi lon poka.
I am near.

> ali li pona. ala li lon tenpo pini. ala li weka.
Everything is okay. Nothing is in the past. Nothing will leave.

> tenpo kama la ali li pona mute.
Everything will get much better.

> tenpo kama la mi mute li lon poka jan sewi.
We all will come to god.

-----
Now that I have completed line by line translation, I will try to
rephrase the whole passage as far as my understanding permits.

Death is nothing.
I go to the nearby building.
In the past, I had many things. We existed indeed.
Please call me by my name. Recite to me.
In the moment of past, give me an air of good feeling!
Enjoy yourself! Smile! Think about me! Talk to my round god!
Please tell my name in the house. Please recite my name.
Everything is the same. Everything stays. Nothing splits.
You don't look at me. Please remember me.
Soon I will put you to rest. I am near.
Everything is okay. Nothing is in the past. Nothing will leave.
Everything will get much better.
We all will come to god.

----
Now comes the moment for me to look at the English original
and enjoy a rare moment of comprehension :)

Wow! At least I was close with "pray" :)
Thank for the interesting translation!
Salikh.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


John E Clifford

Re: AW: Re: Dave''s writing exercises #4

Postby John E Clifford » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:40 pm


a! ilo sitelen mi en lipu toki ni li weka e lipu ni: ona li kama poka toki.




________________________________
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
To: tokipona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:34:33 AM
Subject: Re: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4


jan Tawita o, pona. (ona li pana e lipu ni tawa mi). mi toki mute (mi wile e
ni: lipu mi li kama)

____________ _________ _________ __
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo. com>
To: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:22:35 AM
Subject: Re: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4

ken la 'pali e lipu pi toki "pdf"' mi weka ala e ijo la ala li kama poka toki
sina

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Helmut Voigt <akesi_palisa@ yahoo.de>
To: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:25:38 AM
Subject: Re: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4

mi ande e lipu toki mi li kama lipu toki "pdf". ken la, sina ken lukin e ona.
jan Elumutu

--- John E Clifford <kali9putra@ yahoo. com> schrieb am Do, 20.8.2009:

Von: John E Clifford <kali9putra@ yahoo. com>
Betreff: Re: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4
An: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Datum: Donnerstag, 20. August 2009, 19:43

pakala! mi kama jo ala e lipupi ilo Word.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Helmut Voigt <akesi_palisa@ yahoo.de>
To: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 12:35:11 PM
Subject: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4

ali o, toki!
After reading this interesting two-language text, I have added some translation
suggestions, too. as it's rather long, I'll append it as an MSWord file. I don't
know the English original, but I think that such exercises can give us many
hints on what should be improved or made clearer in toki pona.
Thanx, Dave and Salikh!
jan Elumutu

--- salikh.zakirov <salikh@gmail. com> schrieb am Fr, 14.8.2009:

Von: salikh.zakirov <salikh@gmail. com>
Betreff: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4
An: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Datum: Freitag, 14. August 2009, 7:03

Hi, Dave!

I have tried to translate your toki pona poem translation back to
English *before* looking at the English original.
Sorry if my toki pona competency is not high enough to get to the
hidden meaning, but I hope you find it helpful.

> moli li ala.
Death is nothing.

> mi tawa tomo poka.
I go to the near building (room?).

> tenpo pini la seme mi mute li lon.
In the past, what mine (multiple my things) were.
(* This feels a little bit ungrammatic, as there is no question.
Or where you intending "what of us" or something like that? *)

> mi mute li lon kin.
We exist indeed.

> o toki e mi kepeken nimi mi.
Please talk to me my name.
(* I think you were trying to say "please call me by my name",
and if that's true, "o nimi e mi kepeken nimi mi" seems a bit better *)

> o toki pona pali e mi.
Report to me.
(* or is that something like "recite to me"? *)

> sama tenpo pini la o pana e kon pi pilin pona.
In the moment of past, give me an air of good feeling!

> o musi. o pali e sinpin pona.
Enjoy yourself! Make a good face.

> o pilin e mi.
Feel me! (* or "Think of me!" ?*)

> o toki tawa jan sewi sike mi.
Talk to my round god!
(* Sorry, I could not get what "round god" means *)

> o toki e nimi mi lon tomo.
Please tell my name in the house.

> o toki pona pali e nimi mi.
Please recite my name.

> ali li lon sama. ali li awen. ala li tu.
Everything is the same. Everything stays. Nothing splits.
(* Or was that "nothing changes" intended? In that case, how about
"ala li kama ante"? *)

> sina lukin ala e mi. o awen e mi lon lawa sina.
You don't look at me. Please remember me.

> tenpo lili la mi awen tawa sina.
(* or is that "I will prevent you from moving" i.e. "I will
bind/stop/set at rest you"?
If so, how about "mi awen e tawa sina" or "mi awen tawa e sina"?
Anyway, it is entirely unclear to me if it is reasonable to use "tawa"
as modifier in places where it looks like a preposition and require
reader to deduce from context.
"e" is binding stronger than "tawa", so using "e" would resolve the
parsing ambiguity *)

> mi lon poka.
I am near.

> ali li pona. ala li lon tenpo pini. ala li weka.
Everything is okay. Nothing is in the past. Nothing will leave.

> tenpo kama la ali li pona mute.
Everything will get much better.

> tenpo kama la mi mute li lon poka jan sewi.
We all will come to god.

-----
Now that I have completed line by line translation, I will try to
rephrase the whole passage as far as my understanding permits.

Death is nothing.
I go to the nearby building.
In the past, I had many things. We existed indeed.
Please call me by my name. Recite to me.
In the moment of past, give me an air of good feeling!
Enjoy yourself! Smile! Think about me! Talk to my round god!
Please tell my name in the house. Please recite my name.
Everything is the same. Everything stays. Nothing splits.
You don't look at me. Please remember me.
Soon I will put you to rest. I am near.
Everything is okay. Nothing is in the past. Nothing will leave.
Everything will get much better.
We all will come to god.

----
Now comes the moment for me to look at the English original
and enjoy a rare moment of comprehension :)

Wow! At least I was close with "pray" :)
Thank for the interesting translation!
Salikh.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


John E Clifford

Re: AW: Re: Dave''s writing exercises #4

Postby John E Clifford » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:44 pm


jan Elumutu o, jan Tawita li pana e lipu sina tawa mi.  mi sitelen e mute lili
lon ona.




________________________________
From: Helmut Voigt <akesi_palisa@yahoo.de>
To: tokipona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:25:38 AM
Subject: Re: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4


mi ande e lipu toki mi li kama lipu toki "pdf". ken la, sina ken lukin e ona.
jan Elumutu

--- John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo. com> schrieb am Do, 20.8.2009:

Von: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo. com>
Betreff: Re: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4
An: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Datum: Donnerstag, 20. August 2009, 19:43



pakala! mi kama jo ala e lipupi ilo Word.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Helmut Voigt <akesi_palisa@ yahoo.de>
To: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 12:35:11 PM
Subject: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4

ali o, toki!
After reading this interesting two-language text, I have added some translation
suggestions, too. as it's rather long, I'll append it as an MSWord file. I don't
know the English original, but I think that such exercises can give us many
hints on what should be improved or made clearer in toki pona.
Thanx, Dave and Salikh!
jan Elumutu

--- salikh.zakirov <salikh@gmail. com> schrieb am Fr, 14.8.2009:

Von: salikh.zakirov <salikh@gmail. com>
Betreff: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4
An: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Datum: Freitag, 14. August 2009, 7:03

Hi, Dave!

I have tried to translate your toki pona poem translation back to
English *before* looking at the English original.
Sorry if my toki pona competency is not high enough to get to the
hidden meaning, but I hope you find it helpful.

> moli li ala.
Death is nothing.

> mi tawa tomo poka.
I go to the near building (room?).

> tenpo pini la seme mi mute li lon.
In the past, what mine (multiple my things) were.
(* This feels a little bit ungrammatic, as there is no question.
Or where you intending "what of us" or something like that? *)

> mi mute li lon kin.
We exist indeed.

> o toki e mi kepeken nimi mi.
Please talk to me my name.
(* I think you were trying to say "please call me by my name",
and if that's true, "o nimi e mi kepeken nimi mi" seems a bit better *)

> o toki pona pali e mi.
Report to me.
(* or is that something like "recite to me"? *)

> sama tenpo pini la o pana e kon pi pilin pona.
In the moment of past, give me an air of good feeling!

> o musi. o pali e sinpin pona.
Enjoy yourself! Make a good face.

> o pilin e mi.
Feel me! (* or "Think of me!" ?*)

> o toki tawa jan sewi sike mi.
Talk to my round god!
(* Sorry, I could not get what "round god" means *)

> o toki e nimi mi lon tomo.
Please tell my name in the house.

> o toki pona pali e nimi mi.
Please recite my name.

> ali li lon sama. ali li awen. ala li tu.
Everything is the same. Everything stays. Nothing splits.
(* Or was that "nothing changes" intended? In that case, how about
"ala li kama ante"? *)

> sina lukin ala e mi. o awen e mi lon lawa sina.
You don't look at me. Please remember me.

> tenpo lili la mi awen tawa sina.
(* or is that "I will prevent you from moving" i.e. "I will
bind/stop/set at rest you"?
If so, how about "mi awen e tawa sina" or "mi awen tawa e sina"?
Anyway, it is entirely unclear to me if it is reasonable to use "tawa"
as modifier in places where it looks like a preposition and require
reader to deduce from context.
"e" is binding stronger than "tawa", so using "e" would resolve the
parsing ambiguity *)

> mi lon poka.
I am near.

> ali li pona. ala li lon tenpo pini. ala li weka.
Everything is okay. Nothing is in the past. Nothing will leave.

> tenpo kama la ali li pona mute.
Everything will get much better.

> tenpo kama la mi mute li lon poka jan sewi.
We all will come to god.

-----
Now that I have completed line by line translation, I will try to
rephrase the whole passage as far as my understanding permits.

Death is nothing.
I go to the nearby building.
In the past, I had many things. We existed indeed.
Please call me by my name. Recite to me.
In the moment of past, give me an air of good feeling!
Enjoy yourself! Smile! Think about me! Talk to my round god!
Please tell my name in the house. Please recite my name.
Everything is the same. Everything stays. Nothing splits.
You don't look at me. Please remember me.
Soon I will put you to rest. I am near.
Everything is okay. Nothing is in the past. Nothing will leave.
Everything will get much better.
We all will come to god.

----
Now comes the moment for me to look at the English original
and enjoy a rare moment of comprehension :)

Wow! At least I was close with "pray" :)
Thank for the interesting translation!
Salikh.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


John E Clifford

Re: AW: Re: Dave''s writing exercises #4

Postby John E Clifford » Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:10 pm


pakala a! mi sitelen e sielen lon ike  (sona tu kin)


________________________________
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
To: tokipona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:44:26 AM
Subject: Re: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4


jan Elumutu o, jan Tawita li pana e lipu sina tawa mi. mi sitelen e mute lili
lon ona.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Helmut Voigt <akesi_palisa@ yahoo.de>
To: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:25:38 AM
Subject: Re: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4

mi ande e lipu toki mi li kama lipu toki "pdf". ken la, sina ken lukin e ona.
jan Elumutu

--- John E Clifford <kali9putra@ yahoo. com> schrieb am Do, 20.8.2009:

Von: John E Clifford <kali9putra@ yahoo. com>
Betreff: Re: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4
An: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Datum: Donnerstag, 20. August 2009, 19:43

pakala! mi kama jo ala e lipupi ilo Word.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Helmut Voigt <akesi_palisa@ yahoo.de>
To: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 12:35:11 PM
Subject: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4

ali o, toki!
After reading this interesting two-language text, I have added some translation
suggestions, too. as it's rather long, I'll append it as an MSWord file. I don't
know the English original, but I think that such exercises can give us many
hints on what should be improved or made clearer in toki pona.
Thanx, Dave and Salikh!
jan Elumutu

--- salikh.zakirov <salikh@gmail. com> schrieb am Fr, 14.8.2009:

Von: salikh.zakirov <salikh@gmail. com>
Betreff: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4
An: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Datum: Freitag, 14. August 2009, 7:03

Hi, Dave!

I have tried to translate your toki pona poem translation back to
English *before* looking at the English original.
Sorry if my toki pona competency is not high enough to get to the
hidden meaning, but I hope you find it helpful.

> moli li ala.
Death is nothing.

> mi tawa tomo poka.
I go to the near building (room?).

> tenpo pini la seme mi mute li lon.
In the past, what mine (multiple my things) were.
(* This feels a little bit ungrammatic, as there is no question.
Or where you intending "what of us" or something like that? *)

> mi mute li lon kin.
We exist indeed.

> o toki e mi kepeken nimi mi.
Please talk to me my name.
(* I think you were trying to say "please call me by my name",
and if that's true, "o nimi e mi kepeken nimi mi" seems a bit better *)

> o toki pona pali e mi.
Report to me.
(* or is that something like "recite to me"? *)

> sama tenpo pini la o pana e kon pi pilin pona.
In the moment of past, give me an air of good feeling!

> o musi. o pali e sinpin pona.
Enjoy yourself! Make a good face.

> o pilin e mi.
Feel me! (* or "Think of me!" ?*)

> o toki tawa jan sewi sike mi.
Talk to my round god!
(* Sorry, I could not get what "round god" means *)

> o toki e nimi mi lon tomo.
Please tell my name in the house.

> o toki pona pali e nimi mi.
Please recite my name.

> ali li lon sama. ali li awen. ala li tu.
Everything is the same. Everything stays. Nothing splits.
(* Or was that "nothing changes" intended? In that case, how about
"ala li kama ante"? *)

> sina lukin ala e mi. o awen e mi lon lawa sina.
You don't look at me. Please remember me.

> tenpo lili la mi awen tawa sina.
(* or is that "I will prevent you from moving" i.e. "I will
bind/stop/set at rest you"?
If so, how about "mi awen e tawa sina" or "mi awen tawa e sina"?
Anyway, it is entirely unclear to me if it is reasonable to use "tawa"
as modifier in places where it looks like a preposition and require
reader to deduce from context.
"e" is binding stronger than "tawa", so using "e" would resolve the
parsing ambiguity *)

> mi lon poka.
I am near.

> ali li pona. ala li lon tenpo pini. ala li weka.
Everything is okay. Nothing is in the past. Nothing will leave.

> tenpo kama la ali li pona mute.
Everything will get much better.

> tenpo kama la mi mute li lon poka jan sewi.
We all will come to god.

-----
Now that I have completed line by line translation, I will try to
rephrase the whole passage as far as my understanding permits.

Death is nothing.
I go to the nearby building.
In the past, I had many things. We existed indeed.
Please call me by my name. Recite to me.
In the moment of past, give me an air of good feeling!
Enjoy yourself! Smile! Think about me! Talk to my round god!
Please tell my name in the house. Please recite my name.
Everything is the same. Everything stays. Nothing splits.
You don't look at me. Please remember me.
Soon I will put you to rest. I am near.
Everything is okay. Nothing is in the past. Nothing will leave.
Everything will get much better.
We all will come to god.

----
Now comes the moment for me to look at the English original
and enjoy a rare moment of comprehension :)

Wow! At least I was close with "pray" :)
Thank for the interesting translation!
Salikh.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


John E Clifford

Re: AW: Re: Dave''s writing exercises #4

Postby John E Clifford » Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:12 pm


or 'sona tu sin'?




________________________________
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
To: tokipona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:10:49 PM
Subject: Re: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4


pakala a! mi sitelen e sielen lon ike (sona tu kin)

____________ _________ _________ __
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo. com>
To: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:44:26 AM
Subject: Re: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4

jan Elumutu o, jan Tawita li pana e lipu sina tawa mi. mi sitelen e mute lili
lon ona.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Helmut Voigt <akesi_palisa@ yahoo.de>
To: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:25:38 AM
Subject: Re: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4

mi ande e lipu toki mi li kama lipu toki "pdf". ken la, sina ken lukin e ona.
jan Elumutu

--- John E Clifford <kali9putra@ yahoo. com> schrieb am Do, 20.8.2009:

Von: John E Clifford <kali9putra@ yahoo. com>
Betreff: Re: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4
An: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Datum: Donnerstag, 20. August 2009, 19:43

pakala! mi kama jo ala e lipupi ilo Word.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Helmut Voigt <akesi_palisa@ yahoo.de>
To: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 12:35:11 PM
Subject: AW: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4

ali o, toki!
After reading this interesting two-language text, I have added some translation
suggestions, too. as it's rather long, I'll append it as an MSWord file. I don't
know the English original, but I think that such exercises can give us many
hints on what should be improved or made clearer in toki pona.
Thanx, Dave and Salikh!
jan Elumutu

--- salikh.zakirov <salikh@gmail. com> schrieb am Fr, 14.8.2009:

Von: salikh.zakirov <salikh@gmail. com>
Betreff: [tokipona] Re: Dave's writing exercises #4
An: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Datum: Freitag, 14. August 2009, 7:03

Hi, Dave!

I have tried to translate your toki pona poem translation back to
English *before* looking at the English original.
Sorry if my toki pona competency is not high enough to get to the
hidden meaning, but I hope you find it helpful.

> moli li ala.
Death is nothing.

> mi tawa tomo poka.
I go to the near building (room?).

> tenpo pini la seme mi mute li lon.
In the past, what mine (multiple my things) were.
(* This feels a little bit ungrammatic, as there is no question.
Or where you intending "what of us" or something like that? *)

> mi mute li lon kin.
We exist indeed.

> o toki e mi kepeken nimi mi.
Please talk to me my name.
(* I think you were trying to say "please call me by my name",
and if that's true, "o nimi e mi kepeken nimi mi" seems a bit better *)

> o toki pona pali e mi.
Report to me.
(* or is that something like "recite to me"? *)

> sama tenpo pini la o pana e kon pi pilin pona.
In the moment of past, give me an air of good feeling!

> o musi. o pali e sinpin pona.
Enjoy yourself! Make a good face.

> o pilin e mi.
Feel me! (* or "Think of me!" ?*)

> o toki tawa jan sewi sike mi.
Talk to my round god!
(* Sorry, I could not get what "round god" means *)

> o toki e nimi mi lon tomo.
Please tell my name in the house.

> o toki pona pali e nimi mi.
Please recite my name.

> ali li lon sama. ali li awen. ala li tu.
Everything is the same. Everything stays. Nothing splits.
(* Or was that "nothing changes" intended? In that case, how about
"ala li kama ante"? *)

> sina lukin ala e mi. o awen e mi lon lawa sina.
You don't look at me. Please remember me.

> tenpo lili la mi awen tawa sina.
(* or is that "I will prevent you from moving" i.e. "I will
bind/stop/set at rest you"?
If so, how about "mi awen e tawa sina" or "mi awen tawa e sina"?
Anyway, it is entirely unclear to me if it is reasonable to use "tawa"
as modifier in places where it looks like a preposition and require
reader to deduce from context.
"e" is binding stronger than "tawa", so using "e" would resolve the
parsing ambiguity *)

> mi lon poka.
I am near.

> ali li pona. ala li lon tenpo pini. ala li weka.
Everything is okay. Nothing is in the past. Nothing will leave.

> tenpo kama la ali li pona mute.
Everything will get much better.

> tenpo kama la mi mute li lon poka jan sewi.
We all will come to god.

-----
Now that I have completed line by line translation, I will try to
rephrase the whole passage as far as my understanding permits.

Death is nothing.
I go to the nearby building.
In the past, I had many things. We existed indeed.
Please call me by my name. Recite to me.
In the moment of past, give me an air of good feeling!
Enjoy yourself! Smile! Think about me! Talk to my round god!
Please tell my name in the house. Please recite my name.
Everything is the same. Everything stays. Nothing splits.
You don't look at me. Please remember me.
Soon I will put you to rest. I am near.
Everything is okay. Nothing is in the past. Nothing will leave.
Everything will get much better.
We all will come to god.

----
Now comes the moment for me to look at the English original
and enjoy a rare moment of comprehension :)

Wow! At least I was close with "pray" :)
Thank for the interesting translation!
Salikh.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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