how fast do you write toki-pona?

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kate rhodes

how fast do you write toki-pona?

Post by kate rhodes »

Trying to get a feel for how quickly people can write in theirfavorite conlangs.For example. The following Lorem Ipsum is 200 words long. if you weregoing to write (not translate) something that long in Toki Pona,approximately how long would it take you?//// 200 words of lorem impsumLorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Donec eu leonisl. Praesent eu nibh diam. Nam sem sem, euismod sed sagittis nec,porttitor non nulla. Nullam tellus tortor, fermentum vitae tristiqueeu, pharetra fringilla sem. In auctor nisi quis leo laoreet pretium.In odio mi, rutrum eu auctor at, posuere id ligula. Donec luctustortor vitae dui accumsan dictum. Suspendisse erat augue, feugiat sedluctus sed, commodo eu nisi. Nam feugiat vulputate leo atpellentesque. Nullam non magna at massa placerat adipiscing id nonaugue.Morbi ultricies convallis ipsum, eget ultricies lectus fringilla sed.Nam mattis tempor neque, ut suscipit neque mollis vitae. Morbifaucibus suscipit tristique. Nullam quis eros at quam ornare cursus.Nulla velit odio, auctor id hendrerit rutrum, tempor ut felis. Inblandit scelerisque ornare. Maecenas sed ligula massa. Class aptenttaciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptoshimenaeos. Ut vel ligula tortor, in tempor nisl. Vestibulumsollicitudin accumsan est at tempus. Nullam bibendum nibh ornareturpis porttitor sed posuere libero consequat. Sed vulputate facilisiseros, ac accumsan leo imperdiet in. Suspendisse potenti. Praesentpellentesque purus nec ligula vulputate ut venenatis quam lobortis. Inhac habitasse platea dictumst. Pellentesque laoreet urna ac dui.///-KatePromote Rider Safety. Get your free Gear Up! stickerhttp://www.GearUpProject.org
jan_sewe

Re: how fast do you write toki-pona?

Post by jan_sewe »

--- In tokipona@yahoogroups.com, kate rhodes <masukomi@...> wrote:>> Trying to get a feel for how quickly people can write in their> favorite conlangs.>> For example. The following Lorem Ipsum is 200 words long. if you were> going to write (not translate) something that long in Toki Pona,> approximately how long would it take you?>>> //// 200 words of lorem impsum> Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit.Why is speed so important to you? Your suggestion seems to be echoing that ofsomeone else here who wanted a Toki Pona chatterbot...Fast translation of a reputedly meaningless text isn't really sona pona. By theway, are there so many people who are simultaneously fluent in both Toki Ponaand Latin? :)You don't understand Toki Pona philosophy. Read this one more time:http://tokipona.org/intro.html
kate rhodes

Re: Re: how fast do you write toki-pona?

Post by kate rhodes »

On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 1:07 PM, jan_sewe<serge.g@laposte.net> wrote:> Why is speed so important to you? Your suggestion seems to be echoing that ofsomeone else here who wanted a Toki Pona chatterbot...Speed is important because we're discussing a NaNoWriMo type evenwhere you write in the conlang of your choice, but in order to do thatwe need to set a goal of how many words someone would write in themonth.> Fast translation of a reputedly meaningless text isn't really sona pona. Bythe way, are there so many people who are simultaneously fluent in both TokiPona and Latin? :)I didn't ask how long it would take to translate it. In fact Ispecifically said "not translate". I asked how long it would take towrite something that long in Toki Pona. Saying "200 words" doesn'tmean a lot to most people, so I provided a visual example of just howlong 200 words was.>> You don't understand Toki Pona philosophy. Read this one more time:http://tokipona.org/intro.htmlThis is not even remotely incompatible with Toki Pona's philosophy.You did not understand what I wrote.-Kate
jan_sewe

Re: how fast do you write toki-pona?

Post by jan_sewe »

> > You don't understand Toki Pona philosophy. Read this one more time:http://tokipona.org/intro.html>> This is not even remotely incompatible with Toki Pona's philosophy.> You did not understand what I wrote.>>> -Kate>OK sorry, it's because English isn't my first language - French is.However I don't like long tp texts because I can't understand them. Youshouldn't try to compare tp with other languages that have more words.Try first to say meaningful, shorts sentences in it, even if this will take yousome time. Long texts are really hard to understand.
Christoph Mewes

Re: Re: how fast do you write toki-pona?

Post by Christoph Mewes »

toki.> However I don't like long tp texts because I can't understand them.> You shouldn't try to compare tp with other languages that have more> words.agreed.> Try first to say meaningful, shorts sentences in it, even if this> will take you some time. Long texts are really hard to understand.I always wondered whether that was inherent in the language or because i'm notfluent enough. i guess a bit of both.the short sentences actually make tp easier to grok, but the similar sounds andshort words make it a bit hard to read imho.That being said, a lot of my time writing tp is actually spent thinking abouthow to say things. it's just not as easy as translating into another languagebecause the concept of tp is so different. so i guess tp would be pretty bad insuch a test.i guess i'd take about half an hour currently (not really having activly used tpfor about a year).greets,Fossi--Be Yourself @ mail.com!Choose From 200+ Email AddressesGet a Free Account at www.mail.com
Jim Henry

Re: Re: how fast do you write toki-pona?

Post by Jim Henry »

On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 1:29 PM, jan_sewe<serge.g@laposte.net> wrote:> However I don't like long tp texts because I can't understand them. Youshouldn't try to compare tp with other languages that have more words.I don't think length of text in TP is a problem per se, so much astexts that try to convey ideas on a high level of abstraction forwhich TP is not very suitable.Kate's question arose from a thread where we were talking aboutwhat would be a challenging but attainable goal for writing in aconlang (or perhaps more generally, in a language one isn'tperfectly fluent in). National Novel Writing Month is a yearlyevent where amateur writers encourage one another while alltrying to accomplish a similar goal at the same time: writinga complete 50,000 word novel between November 1 andNovember 30. For most people, doing that in one's nativelanguage is a challenging but attainable goal. Doing 40,000or 30,000 words in another language one has near-nativefluency in would also be challenging but attainable. But whatwould be a reasonable goal for writing in a language onehas a much lower level of fluency in, or which is itself notentirely complete (so you will probably have to coin new wordsor work out grammatical issues while writing a text of anygreat length)?I suggest, rather than trying to write exactly 200 words inToki Pona (or whatever other conlang) and see how long ittakes, just write a text of whatever length, note the timeone starts and finishes, do a word count on the resultingtext, and do the math to see how many words per minuteone averaged. I'm fixing to do that with Toki Pona andmy own gzb.....OK, this 137-word vignette took me 306 seconds towrite in a quick off-the-cuff first draft, so about 27 wordsper minute.jan lili tu tu wan li lon. o lukin e ma ni: tomo pi kama sona pi janlili li lon. ma musi li lon tomo ni. tenpo suno mute la, jan lililli kama tawa ma musi ni li musi.jan Janu li toki e ni: "mi mute o musi e toki awen 'jan lawa pi sikeike'. mi jan Awakon.'jan Tami li toki e ni: "tenpo ali la sina jan Akawon! ni li pona alatawa mi. mi wile jan Awakan. sina o jan Falami."jan Lisa li toki e ni: "mi jan Ejowen. mi utala pona."jan Keti li toki e ni: "tenpo pini la sina jan Ejowen. mi jan Aliwen.jan Aliwen li wawa ala. tenpo ni la mi wile jan Ejowen."jan lili li toki utala li musi ala. ike a.---Jim Henryhttp://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
John E Clifford

Re: Re: how fast do you write toki-pona?

Post by John E Clifford »

sike suno mute pini la mi kama jo e mute lipu tan pona mi pi toki Lasin. tasotenpo ni la mi ken ala sona e toki sina ni tan ni: tenpo mute pini la mi sonaala e nimi mute. taso sina wile sona e ni: tenpo tawa pi nanpa seme la misitelen e toki pi nimi pi nanpa suli. tan ni la mi sitelen e toki ni. mipilin e ni: mi sitelen e seme. mi kama wile sitelen e ni: mi sitelen e ni. nili pakala. taso seme ante li musi li pona? tenpo la mi pini li nanpa e nimi.tenpo la mi pona e toki mi. tenpo la mi pilin e ni: mi sitelen e mute seme? toki suli li ike ala tan ona. taso ona li ike tan ni: ni li pona pali: janlukin li pilin e ni: ni li sona e ni. taso ni pi nanpa wan li sona e ante.tenpo kama poka la jan lukin li sona ala li pilin e ni: a! ni li sona e ante ni.taso ona li wile tawa monsi tawa open li open sona kin. ni ali li ike.ali ni li kepeken e tenpo lili 27. mi sitelen ilo e lili lon tenpo suli.________________________________From: Christoph Mewes <fossi@iname.com>To: tokipona@yahoogroups.comSent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:24:00 PMSubject: Re: [tokipona] Re: how fast do you write toki-pona?toki.> However I don't like long tp texts because I can't understand them.> You shouldn't try to compare tp with other languages that have more> words.agreed.> Try first to say meaningful, shorts sentences in it, even if this> will take you some time. Long texts are really hard to understand.I always wondered whether that was inherent in the language or because i'm notfluent enough. i guess a bit of both.the short sentences actually make tp easier to grok, but the similar sounds andshort words make it a bit hard to read imho.That being said, a lot of my time writing tp is actually spent thinking abouthow to say things. it's just not as easy as translating into another languagebecause the concept of tp is so different. so i guess tp would be pretty bad insuch a test.i guess i'd take about half an hour currently (not really having activly used tpfor about a year).greets,Fossi--Be Yourself @ mail.com!Choose From 200+ Email AddressesGet a Free Account at www.mail.com[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jan_sewe

Re: how fast do you write toki-pona?

Post by jan_sewe »

--- In tokipona@yahoogroups.com, "Christoph Mewes" <fossi@...> wrote:>> toki.>toki!> I always wondered whether that was inherent in the language or because i'm notfluent enough. i guess a bit of both.>Don't worry, it's completely inherent in the language. What else could youexpect from 120 words?> the short sentences actually make tp easier to grok, but the similar soundsand short words make it a bit hard to read imho.>That's why pictures are so important. They prevent the readers from gettinglost.> That being said, a lot of my time writing tp is actually spent thinking abouthow to say things.>So is mine.> it's just not as easy as translating into another language because the conceptof tp is so different. so i guess tp would be pretty bad in such a test.>Writing in tp is often like playing a strategy game. You want to say the most,but you risk spoiling all your meaning. So you're tempted to say less, in orderto make sure everyone will get it.> i guess i'd take about half an hour currently (not really having activly usedtp for about a year).>It depends on what you're trying to say. Writing pona 200 times can be veryfast. Now if you want to explain your opinion on Gödel's theorem, this mighttake longer...> greets,> Fossi>mi tawa,jan Sewe.
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