AW: Re: mi sona ale li toki pona

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Helmut Voigt

AW: Re: mi sona ale li toki pona

Post by Helmut Voigt »

jan ali o, toki! kulupu nimi "ilo ni li pi sina" li ike mute tawa mi tan ni: "li" precedes apredicate (verb or verbal adjective) but not "pi". pi is used to make clear thatan specifying addition comprising at least two words relates to the precedingbasic word (such as "tomo tawa pi sike mute") which denotes that "sike mute" isrelated to "tomo tawa" and not to "tomo" alone. I would translate "this tool isyours" as "ilo ni li ilo sina". If the object possessed is a longerexpression, I think the "sina jo e..." form is good. Regarding "sina pali seme e ni", I'm not sure whether this is acceptable tp atall because the meaning "what did you do with it" would make "what" a directobject (e seme), and we would have to find a nice solution for "with it" (tawani?) So, I would propose "sina pali e seme tawa ni" just to avoid the wordy"kepeken nasin seme" construction.jan Elumutu --- jan_sewe <serge.g@laposte.net> schrieb am Fr, 15.5.2009:Von: jan_sewe <serge.g@laposte.net>Betreff: [tokipona] Re: mi sona ale li toki ponaAn: tokipona@yahoogroups.comDatum: Freitag, 15. Mai 2009, 14:36--- In tokipona@yahoogroup s.com, "Xavier Aubuchon-Mendoza" <xavieram@.. .>wrote:>> ...which, if I said it right, should mean "I don't know how to speak well."Not sure how I would say "...in the language Toki Pona.">According to what you really mean, there are several possibilities:mi sona ala e ali pi toki pona (I don't know everything about TP)mi ken ala toki pona lon toki pona (I can't speak well in TP)mi sona pona ala e toki pona (I don't know TP well)> In lesson 11, we learn that you can say>> sina pali e ni kepeken nasin seme? -- You made this using what method? How didyou make this?>> ...but, could you also say>> sina pali seme e ni>> You made (in some manner I don't know) this? In what manner did you make this?>> Of course, it's not quite the same question as by what method did you makethis - I'm simply curious if it's a legitimate formation.>The sentence "sina pali seme e ni" doesn't really mean "How did you make this?"but rather "What did you make with this?". "kepeken nasin seme" is actually thebest translation of "how". I sometimes use "sama seme" (like what) but it's notas clear.>> Also...>> ma li pona lukin tawa mi>> "the countryside is good looking to me">> ...is this properly formatted? I'm trying to understand the 'no clause' aspectof the language, but this confuses me. Could somebody point to some examples ofwhich sentences need to be split up when translated and which don't?>"ma li pona lukin tawa mi" is good Toki Pona, but it will be heard with theintended meaning "the countryside is good looking to me" only if you're indeedwatching the coutryside, or if there's a picture of it above your text, or ifyou've already been speaking about the coutryside, and so on. In Toki Pona it'sthe context that makes the meaning. Adding a precision like "ma ni" can beusefull, if not indispensable.You have to split your sentence up when it's too complicated to be expressedwithout a la-clause. And if it still remains too complicated, then just try tosay the same thing in a simpler way.The syntax "ilo ni li pi sina" is a clever invention of jan Pije's, but I'm notsure many of us do use it actually. Most of the time, TP will force you to speakmore directly.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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