Questions about Toki Pona

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master1077

Questions about Toki Pona

Post by master1077 »

Do you think it can be the international language? Do you think it canreally express everything by using it's root words. I believe so sincethe Chinese can do it and Toki Pona is very similar to it but what doyou believe? Do you think Toki Pona should only be written with the 14letters and the period or should it be written with colons (:),explanation marks (!), question marks (?), etc...?Do you think Toki Pona has a future and if so, what future? Will itreplace the European-centric Esperanto?
Rick Miller

Re: Questions about Toki Pona

Post by Rick Miller »

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 05:41, master1077 <master1077@yahoo.com> wrote:> Do you think it can be the international language? [...]No. Toki Pona is not at all suitable for use as a general-purpose language.Complex or detailed topics can't be discussed in a language which hasno dependent clauses and which has no way to express mathematics.Esperanto, on the other hand, is a fully capable language which can beused just as well and for the same things as any national language.The thing which makes Esperanto such a good International AuxiliaryLanguage ("IAL") is that its planned regularity makes it so mucheasier to learn than any ad-hoc national language.> Do you think Toki Pona has a future and if so, what future?Yes, I think Toki Pona will probably gain enthusiasts, especially ifthere is a book available.I think it will always be what it was invented to be; a tool forexploration of meaning and for dispelling unnecessary complexity. Iwould like to see it used as an international *contact* language,perhaps as a "pidgin", because it can be learned in a ridiculouslyshort time and can be used to communicate simple but important things.jan Wiko
Daniel Lyons

Re: Questions about Toki Pona

Post by Daniel Lyons »

On Feb 18, 2009, at 4:41 AM, master1077 wrote:> Do you think it can be the international language?Not *the* international language, but I think it can be *an*international language. I wouldn't be surprised if it grew to thepoint where every major city had maybe fifty people or so who spoke itand wouldn't mind spending some time with travelers. It would be mucheasier to have a simple conversation in Toki Pona amongst people whodo not share a language than it would be to stumble through eachother's languages. But it wouldn't be possible to talk abouteverything at every level of detail.> Do you think it can really express everything by using it's root> words. I believe so since> the Chinese can do it and Toki Pona is very similar to it but what do> you believe?I think it suffices for many of the things we talk about the most. Ata coarse resolution it seems to do fine. But it's a bit like thinkingwith boxing gloves on. Not hard to get a point across, but hard to fixa watch with. I'm hoping to get my girlfriend and my friends to learnit so we can have private conversations in public situations.> Do you think Toki Pona should only be written with the 14> letters and the period or should it be written with colons (:),> explanation marks (!), question marks (?), etc...?I'm also learning Lojban right now and they're really quite anal aboutorthographic concerns. TP's inner circle doesn't seem to have madeanything like a ruling about this. It ought to be possible to write itwith many or most of the world's orthographies. I agree with janElumutu regarding punctuation. More would seem to be extraneous. Atthe same time, the philosophy seems to be live and let live and itdoesn't seem worthwhile to make a big deal out of it.> Do you think Toki Pona has a future and if so, what future?I think it has many futures.1. For curious people or philosophers who want to expand their minds2. For researchers exploring aspects of language3. As an extremely simple international auxiliary language (as janWiko says)4. For depressed people who want to try outlandish remedies5. For people who want to have private conversations in public6. For language constructors doing research before making their ownProbably another dozen others I haven't thought of.> Will it replace the European-centric Esperanto?I don't even think it's a serious contender for that. A bit likeasking if bicycles stand a chance of replacing subway systems.Lojban is a more likely candidate for replacing Esperanto, but theodds of that are extremely small.—Daniel Lyonshttp://www.storytotell.org -- Tell It![Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ceigered

Re: Questions about Toki Pona

Post by ceigered »

--- In tokipona@yahoogroups.com, "master1077" <master1077@...> wrote:>> Do you think it can be the international language? Do you think it can> really express everything by using it's root words. I believe so since> the Chinese can do it and Toki Pona is very similar to it but what do> you believe? Do you think Toki Pona should only be written with the 14> letters and the period or should it be written with colons (:),> explanation marks (!), question marks (?), etc...?>> Do you think Toki Pona has a future and if so, what future? Will it> replace the European-centric Esperanto?>From a face-value look at it (I don't know any Toki Pona), I'd say that thereare some really beneficial things about Toki Pona that are much better thanEsperanto, like the small about of sounds and lack of annoying consonantclusters. But when it comes to IAL's, I believe that the most successful onewill probably itself be a naturally born pidgin of the most popular or wellknown languages, e.g. elements from English, Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, Arabicetc etc. Actually, there's probably already an international language out there,we're just yet to put the pieces together ;)
John E Clifford

Re: Re: Questions about Toki Pona

Post by John E Clifford »

tp doesn't aspire to be an IAL and, if you will look into the archives on theproblems in saying things like 'left' or 'west' or 'dog', for that matter,you'll see it is not very suitable. The de facto IAL is English at the momentand will, at any given time, be the hegemonical language with local pidgins.jan Kipo________________________________From: ceigered <ceigered@yahoo.com.au>To: tokipona@yahoogroups.comSent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 12:10:23 AMSubject: [tokipona] Re: Questions about Toki Pona--- In tokipona@yahoogroup s.com, "master1077" <master1077@ ...> wrote:>> Do you think it can be the international language? Do you think it can> really express everything by using it's root words. I believe so since> the Chinese can do it and Toki Pona is very similar to it but what do> you believe? Do you think Toki Pona should only be written with the 14> letters and the period or should it be written with colons (:),> explanation marks (!), question marks (?), etc...?>> Do you think Toki Pona has a future and if so, what future? Will it> replace the European-centric Esperanto?>From a face-value look at it (I don't know any Toki Pona), I'd say that thereare some really beneficial things about Toki Pona that are much better thanEsperanto, like the small about of sounds and lack of annoying consonantclusters. But when it comes to IAL's, I believe that the most successful onewill probably itself be a naturally born pidgin of the most popular or wellknown languages, e.g. elements from English, Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, Arabicetc etc. Actually, there's probably already an international language out there,we're just yet to put the pieces together ;)[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello

Re: Questions about Toki Pona

Post by Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello »

--- In tokipona@yahoogroups.com, John E Clifford <kali9putra@...> wrote:>> tp doesn't aspire to be an IAL and, if you will look into the archives on theproblems in saying things like 'left' or 'west' or 'dog', for that matter,you'll see it is not very suitable. The de facto IAL is English at the momentand will, at any given time, be the hegemonical language with local pidgins.> jan Kipotoki pona sama toki tawa ma ale li ike tawa jan mute tan ni: toki pona li tokilili. sina ken kepeken e toki pona tawa wile en ijo. taso sina ken ala tokisuli kepeken toki ni.mi ante e lipu Intu tan toki Inli tawa toki pona. taso jan li ken kepeken ala etoki pona tawa toki suli sama toki lawa anu toki pi tomo sona suli.o toki pona!jan Lasika.
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