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Re: nasin toki pi toki pona

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:37 am
by janTepanNetaPelin
janKulisa wrote:Ha, I believe there is a typo here; you have both transitive verbs and prepositions being called "nimi monsi wawa". Might want to correct that. And neither of those seem very "monsi" to me...


Thank you. I corrected that.

nimi suli - verb
nimi suli wawa - transitive verb
nimi monsi - adjective/adverb
nimi monsi wawa - preposition

Adjectives/adverbs (a.k.a. "modifiers") come after the noun/verb. Hence "monsi".

Re: nasin toki pi toki pona

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:24 am
by janKipo
But prepositions don't; they come before their nouns, even when doing business as verbs themselves.

Re: nasin toki pi toki pona

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:33 pm
by janKulisa
janTepanNetaPelin wrote:
janKulisa wrote:Ha, I believe there is a typo here; you have both transitive verbs and prepositions being called "nimi monsi wawa". Might want to correct that. And neither of those seem very "monsi" to me...


Thank you. I corrected that.

nimi suli - verb
nimi suli wawa - transitive verb
nimi monsi - adjective/adverb
nimi monsi wawa - preposition

Adjectives/adverbs (a.k.a. "modifiers") come after the noun/verb. Hence "monsi".


But a preposition isn't an adjective; the very name "pre-position" makes it seem more like a "nimi sinpin" to me! "tan ma ante"; "ma" is the main word, "tan" is before it (nimi sinpin), "ante" is the modifier after it (nimi monsi). So unless you're considering it to be after the verb instead of before the prepositional object...

Re: nasin toki pi toki pona

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:42 pm
by janKipo
A good guess.

Re: nasin toki pi toki pona

Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:35 am
by janTepanNetaPelin
janKulisa wrote:But a preposition isn't an adjective; the very name "pre-position" makes it seem more like a "nimi sinpin" to me! "tan ma ante"; "ma" is the main word, "tan" is before it (nimi sinpin), "ante" is the modifier after it (nimi monsi). So unless you're considering it to be after the verb instead of before the prepositional object...


Indeed. For me, the verb comes first, then comes the preposition: A preposition is a word after a root word (or "content word"), for example a verb. That doesn't make it an adjective, but something similar, hence the similar naming. (I didn't want to literally translate "preposition(al word)", which would indeed yield "nimi sinpin". Otherwise I would have tried to translate "verb" as "nimi" and "adverb" as "nimi poka" and so on.)

Re: nasin toki pi toki pona

Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:17 am
by janKipo
Well, prepositional phrases are modifiers, like adjectives and adverbs, but prepositions are not. Frankly, I like the rejected names better, though 'nimi' for "vern" seems a bit literal and uninformative.

Re: nasin toki pi toki pona

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:46 am
by janTepanNetaPelin
Saluton,

mi ĝisdatigis la gramatikon. Mi koncentriĝis pri la deveno kaj devenigebleco uzante "mankigeblajn substantivojn". Tio signifas, ke multaj vortoj en Tokipono havas eblan aldonan signifon "ijo", "ilo" kaj "jan" kiam ili estas uzataj kiel substantivoj. (Ekzemple, "suno" signifas "lumanta", sed kiel substantivo ĝi signifas "lumanto", "lumo", "suno", sed ne nur "lumado".) Mi provis ekzameni ĉiujn 120 vortojn. Se mi maltrafis iun vorton, bv. sciigi min. :)

https://github.com/stefichjo/toki-pona/ ... -pona-weka

Agrablan legadon! :)

Re: nasin toki pi toki pona

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:35 am
by janKipo
Well, the technique is a good one and the results generally valid. But there seem to be simpler ways of achieving the ends, at least in many cases. Part of the problem may just be in deciding which POS is basic for a given word ('is 'suno' and adjective or a noun, for example) and part may be a less than generous notion of derivation. But the idea of deletion clearly has its uses in tp grammar (though it is surprising to see them in a generally conservative context) and so these proposals have to be taken seriously and compared with other expalnations (of which there are lamentably few).

Re: nasin toki pi toki pona

Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:15 pm
by janTepanNetaPelin
o jan pi toki pona, lipu mi pi nasin toki pi toki pona la mi kepeken e sitelen sin. nasin ni la mi wile sitelen pona e kulupu nimi. mi wile e ni: ni li pana pona lon tenpo pi kama sona.

lon monsi pi nimi ilo la sitelen ":" li lon.

* mi lukin e:sina. (I see you.)
* mi en:sina li:sona e:ona. (You and I know her.)

lon monsi pi nimi suli sinpin li sitelen "." li lon.

* mi wile.lukin e:sina. (I want to see you.)
* mi lukin.kama.sona. (I'm trying to learn.)

lon insa pi nimi lawa (anu nimi suli) en nimi monsi la sitelen "-" li lon.

* sina jan-pona. (You're a good person.)
* mi lukin-pona. (I see well.)

lon monsi pi nimi monsi palisa la sitelen "=" li lon.

* mi pana e:tomo tawa=sina. (I'm giving the house to you.)
* mi pana e:tomo-tawa-sina. (I'm giving your car.)

ken pona la ni li pona tawa sina. :)

jan Tepan

Re: nasin toki pi toki pona

Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:54 pm
by janKipo
jaki! ni li namako mute lon nasin pi pona ala. sitelen ni li weka e pakala ala pi taso nimi sinpin pini. jan li ken weka e pakala ni kepeken sitelen "," taso sama ni: 'mi pana e tomo, tawa sina' v. 'mi pana e tawa tomo sina'. pakala ante li awen. nasin pi jan Tepan li weka ala e ona. taso nasin ni li jo e kulupu nimi kepeken sitelen mute pi kepeken ala.