I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons and I'm looking for good text examples

Toki Pona news: new website, upcoming book, announcements from the language's creator
Tokiponaj novaĵoj: nova TTT-ejo, venonta libro, aperonta libro, anoncoj de la kreinto de la lingvo
jan_Lope
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Re: I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons and I'm looking for good text examples

Postby jan_Lope » Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:57 am

BTW: I've updated the dictionary too (automaticly).

http://rowa.giso.de/languages/toki-pona ... ionary.php
pona!
jan Lope
https://jan-lope.github.io
(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

On my foe list are the sockpuppets janKipo and janSilipu because of permanent, rude spamming.

jan Same
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Re: I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons and I'm looking for good text examples

Postby jan Same » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:34 pm

Your website is a gold mine!
I've learned toki pona with your lessons, and I use your dictionary all the time !
pali sina li pona mute tawa mi :)

jan_Lope
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Re: I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons and I'm looking for good text examples

Postby jan_Lope » Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:21 am

jan Same wrote:Your website is a gold mine!
I've learned toki pona with your lessons, and I use your dictionary all the time !
pali sina li pona mute tawa mi :)


jan Same o, toki!
pona!

If you have any suggestions for improvement, please write to me.
Many thanks.
pona!
jan Lope
https://jan-lope.github.io
(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

On my foe list are the sockpuppets janKipo and janSilipu because of permanent, rude spamming.

jan_Lope
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Re: I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons and I'm looking for good text examples

Postby jan_Lope » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:33 am

I've updated my lessons: optional comma before numbers

http://rowa.giso.de/languages/toki-pona ... essons.php
pona!
jan Lope
https://jan-lope.github.io
(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

On my foe list are the sockpuppets janKipo and janSilipu because of permanent, rude spamming.

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janTepanNetaPelin
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Re: I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons and I'm looking for good text examples

Postby janTepanNetaPelin » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:31 am

jan Lope o, toki!

Congratulations on your grammar! You have just been quoted from it on Facebook, and so I had the opportunity to take a look at it. I have an urging question: in "Several pi-Phrases for one Compound Noun" you leave out the comma in "kulupu pi kalama musi→,← pi ma Inli li
pona." You seem to do this because "pi phrases are not nested," so leaving out the comma doesn't do any harm. But where do you have this information from? I can't find hints in either jan Pije's pages nor in jan Sonja's book.

But, in jan Sonja's book I can find grouped li-phrases that have commas, as in "jan Isa li tawa lili, li kama anpa, li toki e ni tawa sewi: ..." I would expect the same thing to be possible with grouped pi-phrases. Since I don't see why nesting is not allowed, I would read multiple pi-phrases without commas as nested.

mi tawa!
jan Tepan: "o pilin pona o pu!"
https://github.com/stefichjo/toki-pona

jan_Lope
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Re: I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons and I'm looking for good text examples

Postby jan_Lope » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:09 am

janTepanNetaPelin wrote:jan Lope o, toki!

Congratulations on your grammar! You have just been quoted from it on Facebook, and so I had the opportunity to take a look at it. I have an urging question: in "Several pi-Phrases for one Compound Noun" you leave out the comma in "kulupu pi kalama musi→,← pi ma Inli li
pona." You seem to do this because "pi phrases are not nested," so leaving out the comma doesn't do any harm. But where do you have this information from? I can't find hints in either jan Pije's pages nor in jan Sonja's book.

But, in jan Sonja's book I can find grouped li-phrases that have commas, as in "jan Isa li tawa lili, li kama anpa, li toki e ni tawa sewi: ..." I would expect the same thing to be possible with grouped pi-phrases. Since I don't see why nesting is not allowed, I would read multiple pi-phrases without commas as nested.

mi tawa!


jan Tepan o, toki!

Where do you get the information that "li"-phrases can be nested? Several "li"-phrases blong to the subject and not to other "li"-phrases. Or with other words: a verb phrase can only belong to the noun phrase and not to an other verb phrase.

Commas before or after an other separator like "li", "pi", "la", "e", ":", "!", "?" or "." are not neccessary.

mi tawa!
pona!
jan Lope
https://jan-lope.github.io
(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

On my foe list are the sockpuppets janKipo and janSilipu because of permanent, rude spamming.

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janTepanNetaPelin
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Re: I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons and I'm looking for good text examples

Postby janTepanNetaPelin » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:27 am

jan_Lope wrote:Where do you get the information that "li"-phrases can be nested? Several "li"-phrases blong to the subject and not to other "li"-phrases. Or with other words: a verb phrase can only belong to the noun phrase and not to an other verb phrase.

Commas before or after an other separator like "li", "pi", "la", "e", ":", "!", "?" or "." are not neccessary.

mi tawa!


Nested li-phrases? No, there is no such thing and I didn't even mention them. But, I was talking about grouped phrases. (You, for example, grouped "li", "pi", "la", "e" etc. and used commas.)

I understand that a comma in grouped pi-phrases isn't necessary, if nested pi-phrases are not allowed. (For the same reason, grouped li-phrases don't need commas, because there is no such thing as nested li-phrases.) But I can't find any statement or example in the Official Book that prohibits the nesting of pi-phrases. Therefore, the comma for grouping pi-phrases seems necessary.
jan Tepan: "o pilin pona o pu!"
https://github.com/stefichjo/toki-pona

janKipo
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Re: I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons and I'm looking for good text examples

Postby janKipo » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:16 am

Always nice to find something I agree with Lope about (actually, most things, but when we disagree, he gets very Prussian about them). You don't need nor want commas with 'la, li, e, en, anu' and so on. They do help a bit with 'la's, if you want some left groupings, but those are rare. Lope requires them with f
terminal PPs which seems overkill to me and makes for hard reading, but they are nice to have when they are needed. You do need them with 'pi' when you want to break out of nesting (or prevent it), but Lope does not allow nested 'pi's (I don't know what he does with "my friend's big dog's green house" or how he handles right-hand end problems generally).

jan_Lope
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Re: I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons and I'm looking for good text examples

Postby jan_Lope » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:17 pm

janTepanNetaPelin wrote:But I can't find any statement or example in the Official Book that prohibits the nesting of pi-phrases. Therefore, the comma for grouping pi-phrases seems necessary.


jan Tepan o, toki.

There is no example in the Official Book for nested pi-phrases.

The goal of Toki Pona is simplicity. Keep Toki Pona as simple as possible! Nested phrases are not simple.

For a better understanding see the languages of the Pirahã. This language has some similarities to Toki Pona and has no recursion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcOuBggle4Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCaOJl15bwg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDM8G5tuHF8

In German: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjSG_PfmuK8

mi tawa.
pona!
jan Lope
https://jan-lope.github.io
(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

On my foe list are the sockpuppets janKipo and janSilipu because of permanent, rude spamming.

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janTepanNetaPelin
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Re: I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons and I'm looking for good text examples

Postby janTepanNetaPelin » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:45 pm

jan_Lope wrote:There is no example in the Official Book for nested pi-phrases.

The goal of Toki Pona is simplicity. Keep Toki Pona as simple as possible! Nested phrases are not simple.

For a better understanding see the languages of the Pirahã. This language has some similarities to Toki Pona and has no recursion.


jan Lope o,

I thought your grammar was based on jan Pije / jan Sonja, but apparently you also added some of your own ideas, and it wasn't clear to me which is which. For example, Sonja didn't state that she's trying to be as simple as possible. At one point, she even combines two sentences with a comma (yielding a ", taso", by the way). It is preferable for me to call this simplicity "pona", which is a style, not grammar. "Keep Toki Pona as simple as possible!" is not a grammatical rule. It is a style guide, which is not even mentioned explictly. (But I would agree that it can be read out of the Official Book.)

Thanks for the Pirahã language links and all your explanations.

mi tawa!
jan Tepan: "o pilin pona o pu!"
https://github.com/stefichjo/toki-pona


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