I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons and I'm looking for good text examples

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jan_Lope
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Re: I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons an I'm looking for good text examples

Postby jan_Lope » Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:32 pm

I write very precise,

Sorry, but I can't see it in your notes here.
pona!
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Re: I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons an I'm looking for good text examples

Postby janKipo » Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:48 pm

touche'. But I think that is more about lack of examples than fuzziness. Look at the piece about 'pi' in kama sona toki.

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Re: I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons an I'm looking for good text examples

Postby jan_Lope » Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:36 pm

pona!
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(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

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Re: I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons an I'm looking for good text examples

Postby janKipo » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:14 pm

I like the new layout and the greater detail it offers. But I notice that, even with this detail, many common points are omitted (and I only looked at the first couple of pages. Part of this could be covered by putting each word in its home part of speech, since the many of it uses in other places would follow automatically and you would only need to refine and cover the odd cases. Also, Sonja, in her pu avatar, changed the meanings of several words and, while I think we will all ignore most of her changes, they need to be mentioned. Thus, 'a' doubles as 'kin' and 'anpa' means "to prostrate oneself" (a mark of SLM. I suppose). Someone over on Toki Pona on Facebook is also reworking the dictionary and is going looking for more usage, so you might keep an eye on his work.
Checking something else, I came across the same old crap definition of 'pi'. That really just won't do in a dictionary of tp, where it hasn't been accurate for at least ten years, if ever (and the savants have never noticed the "new" rule -- indeed, deny it -- while violating the old rule on the same page).

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Re: I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons an I'm looking for good text examples

Postby jan_Lope » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:04 am

But I notice that, even with this detail, many common points are omitted ... .

It could be better if you try to be precise. Otherwise your comment is useless again.

Someone over on Toki Pona on Facebook is also reworking the dictionary and is going looking for more usage, so you might keep an eye on his work.

I have no Facebook account. But I've checked different dictionaries already and I'm ckecking several texts.

... I came across the same old crap definition of 'pi'.

Please don't disturb with your "pi" discussion again! Please write your comments in "jan nasa li wile ante e toki pona " and NOT HERE! I wrote it several times: I don't support TP dialects or slangs. On the title page of the lessons you can read this: "These lessons are based on the lessons of jan Pije and the offical Toki Pona book of Sonja Lang". Please think about this.
pona!
jan Lope
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(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

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Re: I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons an I'm looking for good text examples

Postby janKipo » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:18 am

Writing details takes time, so that will be longer in coming, but I will get there. This is just a first response to let you know I am paying attention. However, it does suggest that you need to check more carefully on available resources (mine as well as others).

Not having Facebook cuts you off from the majority of current tp and , thus, is a serious handicap for your work.

Sorry about the 'pi' but I see no reason to perpetuate crap, even if it is just repeating Sonja and Pije (who had no reason for perpetuating it either, since they violate the rule on the same page they state it). If you want to separate out the various uses of 'pi', that is fine, even though, in a linear grammar, you have no possible grounds for doing so. But at least put all the uses in and not just the one (less common) one. Or give the general rule, which is all that a linear grammar can actually justify. [This doesn't go on Jan Nasa... because it is not a change, just a recognition of what is actually the case (and has been for a decade at least -- Sonja and Pije -- rather like you, apparently -- just haven't paid attention.]

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Re: I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons an I'm looking for good text examples

Postby jan_Lope » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:30 am

However, it does suggest that you need to check more carefully on available resources (mine as well as others).

I'm checking carefully on available resources. For example I 've checked the Russian Toki Pona lessons yesterday. The section about "pi" is similar to my lessons as well:
https://ru.wikibooks.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0 ... D%D0%B0/pi

Here can you see a bit the progress of my checks:
http://rowa.giso.de/languages/toki-pona ... sson16.php

Not having Facebook cuts you off from the majority of current tp and , thus, is a serious handicap for your work.

The advantage not to have a Facebook account is to important for me.
pona!
jan Lope
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(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

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Re: I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons an I'm looking for good text examples

Postby janKipo » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:09 pm

The Russian lessons are a trat of Pije, so, of course, similar. Not expanding much here.
The items you have picked up are interesting:
a comma with 'li' is just weird, I can't imagine anyone (even Sonja) doing it deliberately. I wouldn't write a rule for it (but, then, I am not sure about writing rules for punctuation anyhow). The commas with 'ala' are not much better but more common and more scattered.
Sonja does use unofficial words after 'li' (actually, just one occurrence, but that is the most we get for most things). It violates so many of her own rules and common sense that I don't see the point in legitimizing it in your rules. Of course, I can' really hope anyone will get it really right, but I can sorta live with that.
'o' requires a person, but what is a person is contextual. Here, apparently, a bug makes it in. (Circular, since one of the tests of person hood is being addressed.)
'mute seme' for "how many?" is standard and old. Savants just haven't noticed or didn't bother to mention it.
The headline example you give is a sentence, not an object phrase (?) but you do need to deal with Frag as an utterance type (basically any well-formed sentence part, so NP, Pred).
'la' at the end is novel and probably wrong (imagine 'la S' there). It probably arises from a confusion , since many 'la' phrases can be shifted to prep phrases at the end 'tenpo kama la' <> 'lon tenpo kama', etc.
The 'taso' you cite is before a sentence, not before a 'la' phrases (though the sentence does begin with a 'la' phrase)
'len' as a transitive verb meaning "dress" is standard (and by the rules) and old, as is 'supo' as an adjective meaning "horizontal, flat, etc."
'esun' as a verb is the original 'esun', meaning "to barter, swap". The "store" use was originally derivative ('tomo esun'). There were problem getting from "swap" to either "buy" or "sell" , which the new definition has not eliminated (but rather complicated).
[I note in passing that, had you checked my stuff, you would have had much of this already.]

janKipo
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Re: I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons an I'm looking for good text examples

Postby janKipo » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:55 pm

So, some details on the first couple pages of your dictionary.

under 'a' note also 'a a' for various two-tone exclamations, like "Uh oh" 'ah Hah" and "oy vey" (calquey but used). similarly, 'a a a a' for warnings ("Don't do that") and terror. 'a' is used a an eponymous noun: 'ona li pana e a', 'a awen ona li nasa e mi'' and as a verb, taking specific emotions as objects 'ona li a e pilin pona' (a sigh of contentment, say) or 'ona li a e monsuta' (shriek of fear). Looking ahead, 'mu' has both the corresponding noun and verb uses.

'ala' vt "destroy, annihilate" (the other possibility, "ignore, neglect, etc." doesn't seem to have occurred).

'alasa' n. game animal
vt to look for, search

ali adverb "totally" (used as a sort of superlative)
'ali la' In summary

anpa (ex Sonja!) adj bowing down, humble, lowly, dependent (SLM)

ante adj foreign (pi ma ante)

'anu' is used equally well to make disjunctive claims, the difference being only the final punctuation. 'anu' can go between any two similar pieces (though exactly how that works for predicates is not clear) and between sentences (again, somewhat unclearly)

awen modal keep on, continue
vt wait for

e note need to repeat with each DO (and no 'en')

en joins any two similar pieces, except sentences. For logical "and" (collapse of two separate sentences) it is not used with predicates (repeat 'li') nor with DOs (repeat 'e').

esun. see previous note.

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Re: I'm updating my Toki Pona lessons an I'm looking for good text examples

Postby jan_Lope » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:42 pm

The Russian lessons are a trat of Pije, so, of course, similar. Not expanding much here.

I didn't found a lesson which describe the use of "pi" in your slang.
pona!
jan Lope
https://jan-lope.github.io
(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

On my foe list are the sockpuppets janKipo and janSilipu because of permanent, rude spamming.


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