Secret part of the new official TP website

Toki Pona news: new website, upcoming book, announcements from the language's creator
Tokiponaj novaĵoj: nova TTT-ejo, venonta libro, aperonta libro, anoncoj de la kreinto de la lingvo
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jan Kapiwe
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Secret part of the new official TP website

Postby jan Kapiwe » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:23 pm

So, you know the new Toki Pona website, [url]tokipona.org[/url], which documents the book progress. Now, if you look at the HTML code, there is this part in annotations — which is ignored by the browser.

<!--

<h3>Support the project</h3>
<br />
<p>I&rsquo;m an independent artist. Your help is special. &lt;3 </p>

<div class="row-fluid">

<div class="row-fluid">
<div class="span4">

<h4>Your Name in Hieroglyphs ($10)</h4>


<img src="pics/name.png" class="center">

<div>Hand-written by the language creator on a white card. <span class="smaller">(Delivered within 2 weeks.)</span> </div>

<form action="https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr" method="post" target="_top">
<input type="hidden" name="cmd" value="_s-xclick">
<input type="hidden" name="hosted_button_id" value="LTW6TDGZ2S3MC"><br />
<table>
<tr><td><input type="hidden" name="on0" value="Your first name">Your first name</td></tr><tr><td><input type="text" name="os0" maxlength="200"></td></tr>
</table>
<input type="image" src="https://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/i/btn/btn_buynow_SM.gif" border="0" name="submit" alt="PayPal - The safer, easier way to pay online!">
<img alt="" border="0" src="https://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/i/scr/pixel.gif" width="1" height="1">
</form>



</div>


<div class="span4">

<h4>Signed Book ($25)</h4>

<img src="pics/_.png" class="center">

Fresh off the presses, and autographed by the author. <span class="smaller">(Delivered by Nov 1, 2013.)</span>

<form action="https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr" method="post" target="_top">
<input type="hidden" name="cmd" value="_s-xclick"><br />
<input type="hidden" name="hosted_button_id" value="CJWHXW93PUVMN">
<input type="image" src="https://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/i/btn/btn_buynow_SM.gif" border="0" name="submit" alt="PayPal - The safer, easier way to pay online!">
<img alt="" border="0" src="https://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/i/scr/pixel.gif" width="1" height="1">
</form>

</div>
<div class="span4">

<h4>Chat with the Author ($50)</h4>
<img src="pics/chat.png" class="center">

Get a one-on-one lesson (by online chat or phone) with the language designer for 30 minutes. She will answer all your questions! <br /><br />

Get a signed book as well. <span class="smaller">(Delivered by Nov 1, 2013.)</span>

<form action="https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr" method="post" target="_top"><br />
<input type="hidden" name="cmd" value="_s-xclick">
<input type="hidden" name="hosted_button_id" value="Z837CPP7WHUH6">
<input type="image" src="https://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/i/btn/btn_buynow_SM.gif" border="0" name="submit" alt="PayPal - The safer, easier way to pay online!">
<img alt="" border="0" src="https://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/i/scr/pixel.gif" width="1" height="1">
</form>




</div>



</div>


<div class="row-fluid">
<div class="span4">

<h4>Friend ($150)</h4>
<img src="pics/pona.png" class="center">

Become immortalized as a Friend <em>(jan pona)</em> of Toki Pona.<br /><br />

If desired, your name, organization and/or website will appear inside the book and on this site.<br /><br />

Get two signed books as well. <span class="smaller">(Delivered by Nov 1, 2013.)</span>

<form action="https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr" method="post" target="_top">
<input type="hidden" name="cmd" value="_s-xclick">
<input type="hidden" name="hosted_button_id" value="9FGABSUFTHG3N"><br />
<input type="image" src="https://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/i/btn/btn_buynow_SM.gif" border="0" name="submit" alt="PayPal - The safer, easier way to pay online!">
<img alt="" border="0" src="https://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/i/scr/pixel.gif" width="1" height="1">
</form>


</div>

<div class="span4">
<h4>Super Friend ($300)</h4>
<img src="pics/super.png" class="center">


Become immortalized as a Super Friend <em>(jan pi pona mute)</em> of Toki Pona. <br /><br />

If desired, your name, organization and/or website will appear inside the book and on this site.<br /><br />


Get three signed books as well. <span class="smaller">(Delivered by Nov 1, 2013.)

<form action="https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr" method="post" target="_top">
<input type="hidden" name="cmd" value="_s-xclick">
<input type="hidden" name="hosted_button_id" value="SFFMS8NKM93HA"><br />
<input type="image" src="https://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/i/btn/btn_buynow_SM.gif" border="0" name="submit" alt="PayPal - The safer, easier way to pay online!">
<img alt="" border="0" src="https://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/i/scr/pixel.gif" width="1" height="1">
</form>



</span>

</div>

<div class="span4">

<h4> Lover of Toki Pona ($900)</h4>

<img src="pics/olin.png" class="center">

Become immortalized as a Lover <em>(jan olin)</em> of Toki Pona. <br /><br />

If desired, your name, organization and/or website will appear inside the book and on this site.<br /><br />

Get four signed books as well. <span class="smaller">(Delivered by Nov 1, 2013.)

<form action="https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr" method="post" target="_top">
<input type="hidden" name="cmd" value="_s-xclick">
<input type="hidden" name="hosted_button_id" value="TNCKT3QAXV834"><br />
<input type="image" src="https://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/i/btn/btn_buynow_SM.gif" border="0" name="submit" alt="PayPal - The safer, easier way to pay online!">
<img alt="" border="0" src="https://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/i/scr/pixel.gif" width="1" height="1">
</form>


</div>


</div>
<p>2.5% of proceeds will be donated to <a href="http://www.islamicfoundation.ca/social-services-overview.aspx">social services</a> at the Islamic Foundation of Toronto.</p>
</div>

-->


If you remove the <!-- and -->, a whole new part of the website is revealed — which is probably going to be online as soon as the book is ready.

Take a look: http://i.imgur.com/7fkLJfa.png

Sooo, the book costs $25?
mi mute o musi!

janMato
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Re: Secret part of the new official TP website

Postby janMato » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:31 pm

Yeah, it was up this morning. Its a kickstarter sort of idea. It's a good idea, I think it makes more sense to start taking orders when the project is pretty close to done given that jan Sonja has been working on this for 13 years and it appears things out her control have conspired to prevent a book from appearing (gainful employment for example :-)

Kuti
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Re: Secret part of the new official TP website

Postby Kuti » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:35 am

With the last line she lost a customer. I won't buy this.
I just sent her an email to explain why.

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jan Kapiwe
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Re: Secret part of the new official TP website

Postby jan Kapiwe » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:32 am

I wanted to buy the book when I was crazy about TP. Now, the craze has been gone, and I can't see myself spending $25 on a book about a language I already know with extras, like hieroglyphs and sign language that I will never use.
mi mute o musi!

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Re: Secret part of the new official TP website

Postby janMato » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:29 pm

With the last line she lost a customer. I won't buy this.
I just sent her an email to explain why.


Classical toki pona was more cultural neutral than the buzz around it suggested (you had to really look hard to see anything Daoist). Even if I was an anthropologist, there isn't a lot in the lexicon that ties this to a human experience, let alone any particular tribe.

mani, pan, len => cultural artifacts (unless mani is a biological category of animal distinct from soweli)
jo => this with mani, I think are the only words that imply a system of property. Some language (e.g. Russian) still didn't have a similar verb (it doesn't now, but it isn't the preferred way to indicate possession)
a distinction between soweli and jan => speciesism
mi, sina, ona, mama => some egalitarian ideas about gender (making mama mean unspecified gender)
meli, mije => but not so egalitarians as to omit gender altogether
olin, apeja => some definitions editorializing about human relations (namely that olin is between 2 people)
kala, waso, soweli, kili, etc => some clues that we are on earth and part of biological system (i.e. not the language of sentient robots from planet Z)

Everything else is pretty abstract, neutral and a-cutural.

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janKalepa
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Re: Secret part of the new official TP website

Postby janKalepa » Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:30 pm

There are words to indicate posessions in Russian, most general is иметь (to have), almost the same is владеть (to have, to have power on), and some compound statements, as, for ex. у меня есть (i have, literary "is near me").

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Re: Secret part of the new official TP website

Postby janMato » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:29 pm

janKalepa wrote:There are words to indicate posessions in Russian, most general is иметь (to have), almost the same is владеть (to have, to have power on), and some compound statements, as, for ex. у меня есть (i have, literary "is near me").


иметь get's used mostly for skills and владеть sounds like political stuff...both sound like legal jargon for possession of goods. Not a good sapir-whorf reason to say the Russians are predisposed to communism and public ownership, but it does harken back to the days when the Slavs were a hunting and gathering tribe and there wasn't much to own and there wasn't much reason to have a tidy way to express property rights.

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janKalepa
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Re: Secret part of the new official TP website

Postby janKalepa » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:22 am

janMato wrote:
janKalepa wrote:There are words to indicate posessions in Russian, most general is иметь (to have), almost the same is владеть (to have, to have power on), and some compound statements, as, for ex. у меня есть (i have, literary "is near me").


иметь get's used mostly for skills and владеть sounds like political stuff...both sound like legal jargon for possession of goods. Not a good sapir-whorf reason to say the Russians are predisposed to communism and public ownership, but it does harken back to the days when the Slavs were a hunting and gathering tribe and there wasn't much to own and there wasn't much reason to have a tidy way to express property rights.


All nations were a hunting tribes once. The Russian language usually have more than one way to express almost the same things, so with that posessions stuff. Иметь literary means "to have", I guarantee that :-) and you are rightwith владеть use, it's more formal.

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Re: Secret part of the new official TP website

Postby janSilipu » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:31 am

Note in passing: the word use is totally irrelevant to SWH.

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Re: Secret part of the new official TP website

Postby janMato » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:46 am

janKalepa wrote:All nations were a hunting tribes once.


But not everyone has conserved their tribal grammatical patterns. Languages that went through a phase of being a creole (English is one-- it lost almost all it's interesting bits going from Old to Middle English)

I asked the by-me vs I-have question on Stack Exchange, http://russian.stackexchange.com/questi ... cal-things

Hmm, interesting, just looked up in Describing Morphosyntax (yup, it's the only book I use :-), and Paine notes that if a language has a verb, e.g. "to have", it will usually derive from the verb "to hold" or "to carry". So it looks like English's "to have" probably is derived from "to hold", ownership by merely having it in your hands. No discussion of which languages have strictly the abstract version, i.e. a verb that didn't grow out of proximity, holding or carrying.


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