Rumor of toki pona workshop at Easterhegg in Germany

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janMato
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Rumor of toki pona workshop at Easterhegg in Germany

Postby janMato » Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:23 pm

It looks like Tomaso Jxetkubo will be holding a toki pona workshop at Easterhegg in München.

http://twitter.com/jxetkubo/statuses/7765059624
http://eh2010.muc.ccc.de/
http://www.easterhegg.eu/

zeme
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Re: Rumor of toki pona workshop at Easterhegg in Germany

Postby zeme » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:34 pm

you know this guy?
Please correct my mistakes :)

janMato
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Re: Rumor of toki pona workshop at Easterhegg in Germany

Postby janMato » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:47 pm

zeme wrote:you know this guy?


pilin ike la mi sona ale e jan ni. Unfortunately, I don't. I'm just continually scavenging the web for the key words "toki pona" and sometimes intriguing things turn up.

zeme
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Re: Rumor of toki pona workshop at Easterhegg in Germany

Postby zeme » Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:43 pm

a! a! pona :)
a...sina kepeken e "la". taso mi sona ala mute kepeken e "la" :?

haha! good :)
ahh..you used "la", but I don't really know how to use "la".
Please correct my mistakes :)

janMato
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Re: Rumor of toki pona workshop at Easterhegg in Germany

Postby janMato » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:05 am

zeme wrote:a! a! pona :)
a...sina kepeken e nimi "la". kin la taso mi sona ala kepeken e "la" :?

haha! good :)
ahh..you used "la", but I don't really know how to use "la".


The faces of "la"

X la Y means if X then Y. But this is the fuzzy human language sense, not really the strict logical, formal mathematical sense. In this case, X is usually a complete sentence.

In the following cases, the la phrase is usually a fragment (no verb)

time phrase la Y. Y happened at "time phrase" Almost before jan Sonja could finish writing "toki pona doesn't have tense" people innovated ways to express when stuff happened. We have tense, it just isn't an inflectional or morphological process.

adverby-thing la Y. Usually stuff like, maybe (ken la), indeed (kin la), truly (lon la). Sometimes when a modifier after the verb doesn't look right, you can move it to the la phrase. jan Kipo believes (and likely correctly) that some adverbs are best left after the verb and never moved to a la phrase, such as pona, ike, etc--he's probably correct, but I still don't grok whats the difference between these sorts of adverbs.

topical-like thing la Y. mi la moku ni li pona. As for me, this food is good. Topicals in toki pona are community innovations, but they're happening and I predict they will become commonplace.

la chains with fragments
X la Y la Z la A. Indeed, yesterday, truely I was hungry. kin la tenpo suno pini la lon la mi pilin wawa e wile moku.

la chains with full sentences
X la Y la Z. No one knows what these mean. If X, If Y, then Z. So maybe this means, if X & Y then Z, if X or Y then Z, I don't know. In any case, this would make for very long sentences and be hard to read.
Last edited by janMato on Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

janKipo
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Re: Rumor of toki pona workshop at Easterhegg in Germany

Postby janKipo » Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:53 am

The official name for the stuff in front of 'la' is "condition". This has been taken to mean 1) the "if" part of an "if...then..." 2) locating the event the main sentence describes in time (and -- though rarely done -- space) 3)locating the event is various metaphorical "spaces": possibility, opinion, ordered lists and other organizing forms, mood, etc. 4) bringing to prominence a central item that might otherwise be lost in the DO or PP slot. I expect there are more that will arise. Stay tuned -- and try some for yourself.

janMato
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Re: Rumor of toki pona workshop at Easterhegg in Germany

Postby janMato » Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:02 pm

In case anyone missed the event, it happened and here were the handouts:

http://eh2010.muc.ccc.de/fahrplan/events/3727.de.html

Most interesting is the group translation of the first paragraphs of genesis:
http://piratenpad.de/DF3QgQuMtM

open la jan lawa li pali e sewi e anpa.
anpa li sinpin ala li ala; li pimeja lon sewi anpa; kon pi jan lawa li tawa sewi telo.
jan lawa li toki e ni: o kama walo; walo li kama.
jan lawa li lukin e ni: walo li pona. jan lawa li tu walo tan pimeja.
ona li pana e nimi tenpo suno tawa walo e nimi tenpo pimeja tawa pimeja. tenpo pimeja en tenpo suno li kama tawa tenpo suno nanpa wan.
jan lawa li toki e ni: kiwen o insa telo. ona o tu e telo.
jan lawa li pali kiwen li tu e telo pi anpa kiwen tan telo pi sewi kiwen. ni li kama.
jan lawa li pana e nimi sewi tawa kiwen. tenpo pimeja en tenpo suno li kama tawa tenpo suno nanpa tu.
jan lawa li toki e ni: telo o wan anpa sewi tawa ma taso tawa ni: telo ala li lukin. ni li kama.
jan lawa pana e nimi ma ali tawa telo ala e nimi telo suli tawa telo. jan lawa li lukin e ni: ni li pona.
jan lawa li toki e ni: ma o pali e kasi, ona li pali e kili, ma o pali e kasi suli lon ma, ona ali li pali e kili kepeken nasin ona, kili ona li lon insa ona. ni li kama.
ma li pali e kasi, ona li pali e kili, ona ali li kepeken nasin ona, e kasi suli, ona li pali kili kepeken nasin ona, kili ona li lon insa ona. jan lawa li lukin e ni: ni li pona.
tenpo pimeja en tenpo suno li kama tawa tenpo suno nanpa tu wan.
jan lawa li toki e ni: o kama walo lon kiwen sewi, ona li tu e tenpo suno tan tenpo pimeja, ona li pana e sona, e tenpo, e tenpo suno, e tenpo sike.
o kama walo lon kiwen sewi, ona li walo tawa ma. ni li kama.
jan lawa li pali e walo suli tu, walo suli li lawa e tenpo suno, walo lili li lawa e tenpo pimeja, poka ni la suno lili mute.
jan lawa li tawa e ona lon kiwen sewi tawa ni: ona li walo tawa ma
li lawa e tenpo suno e tenpo pimeja li tu e walo tan pimeja. jan lawa li lukin e ni: ni li pona.
tenpo pimeja en tenpo suno li kama tawa tenpo suno nanpa tu tu.
jan lawa li toki e ni: kala o mute lon telo, waso o tawa lon kon sewi ma anpa kiwen sewi.
jan lawa li pali e kala suli e kala ali, ona li lon li tawa, li mute lon telo, li kepeken nasin ona. jan lawa li pali e waso. ona ali li kepeken nasin ona. jan lawa li lukin e ni: ni li ona.

janKipo
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Re: Rumor of toki pona workshop at Easterhegg in Germany

Postby janKipo » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:15 pm

sehr sehr interessant as the little guy (Artie Johnson?) used to say.
1. 'jan lawa' sounds like Lord, which (from the KJV anyhow) isn't right here, but we don't yet have a good God word at this point. 'e sewi e anpa' is a good dodge.
2. I don't get 'sinpin' for "form" or whatever Luther says, "the depths are dark above the depths/at the lower heights"? 'tawa lon sewi telo'
3. 'walo' avoids some dumb stuff later, though otherwise iffy. Imperatives odd in absence of anything to address.
4. I wonder just how 'tu' does work as a vt, I would have gone with tu e walo en pimeja', I think.
5. nimi 'tenpo suno', nimi 'tenpo pimeja' (fuss, fuss) and maybe 'ona li nimi 'tenpo suno' e walo' and so on.Last bit works but there should be a better way (I haven't looked the half dozen stored samples lately).
6. odd imperatives again 'o kiwen li kama lon insa telo' 'ona li tu e telo'? or a continued imperative, 'ona o' just looks wrongish.
7. 'pali e kiwen' Damn, we need PP modifying NPs to do this at all sensibly; it's not the water of the hard bottom, or of the lower firmament, but the telo lon anpa kiwen, etc. how does 'tu' work?
8. nimi 'sewi' (so-so)
9. ?? I'd use 'kulupu,' but then ... 'lon anpa sewi' The rest needs help (or, rather I do)
10. Nice dodges. So above is not "No water appears" but "Non-water appears"
11. some of those 'ona' might better be 'sama'?
12. 'kepeken e nasin'
13.
14. well, now 'walo' doesn't work so well, but either 'suno' or 'mun' messes up the effect.
15. And so on
16. 'ona li pali e suno lili mute.'
17. Well, 'walo' for "light" still isn't great but given it, maybe 'walo e ma'
18.
19. How to break up that string at the end?
20. 'pona' at the end.
Nice. It looks like we have a new German contingent.

Logomachist
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Re: Rumor of toki pona workshop at Easterhegg in Germany

Postby Logomachist » Wed May 19, 2010 3:00 pm

janKipo wrote:1. 'jan lawa' sounds like Lord, which (from the KJV anyhow) isn't right here, but we don't yet have a good God word at this point. 'e sewi e anpa' is a good dodge.


http://bknight0.myweb.uga.edu/toki/lesson/lesson5.html claims "jan sewi" means "god".

jan musi pi len noka
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Re: Rumor of toki pona workshop at Easterhegg in Germany

Postby jan musi pi len noka » Wed May 19, 2010 3:20 pm

Logomachist wrote:
janKipo wrote:1. 'jan lawa' sounds like Lord, which (from the KJV anyhow) isn't right here, but we don't yet have a good God word at this point. 'e sewi e anpa' is a good dodge.


http://bknight0.myweb.uga.edu/toki/lesson/lesson5.html claims "jan sewi" means "god".


Yes, more common usage is "jan lawa" = leader, "jan sewi' = God. Both are idiomatic readings, and sometimes you have to watch out for other literal readings,

jan li weka e lawa. tempo ni la jan lawa li wile e lawa sin.
A man lost his head. Now the head's body wants a new head.

tempo pimeja pini lili la mi lape ala. tempo ale la jan sewi li kalama sama akesi.
I didn't sleep last night. The man upstairs was wailing like a monster.


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