125- monsuta

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janMato
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Re: 124- monsuta

Post by janMato »

jan Ape wrote:sitelen tawa pi monsuta(?) - Horror movie(?)
jan Ape o nimi sina li pona tawa mi. I'm just posting this mostly to provoke a response from jan Kipo. Heh heh.

sitelen tawa monsuta.
monsuta modifies picture. The salient qualities of the picture is that it is moving and it is monstrous.

cf
sitelen tawa pi monsuta kon. This is a ghost movie. The salient feature is that the picture moves and it has ghosts (monsuta kon)

where n is noun, m is modifier and [m] is any number of modifiers

Code: Select all

n m 
n [m]
n m  pi n m
n [m] pi n [m]
n m pi n pi n m         < --- This one seems like it should work.  I can't explain why, if it doesn't work then I feel like I'm adding unnecessary modifiers.
n m pi n m pi n m
n [m] pi n [m] pi n [m]
Longer strings of "pi" are unintelligible. I recently read that Finnish, would can have as many suffixes as it would like, usually stops and 3. The "pi" constructions process probably has similar limitations for my winnie the pu sized brain.

So these three are illegal

Code: Select all

n pi n
n m pi n
n pi n pi n
Last edited by janMato on Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:59 am, edited 3 times in total.
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jan Josan
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Re: 124- monsuta

Post by jan Josan »

tenpo ni la akesi li pilin pona. ona li pilin e ni: jan li wile toki e ike tawa jan ante la, jan li nimi e ona kepeken nimi monsuta. tenpo kama la nimi akesi li nimi ike ala. pilin pona la, akesi li ken lape lon suno. (akesi li pali pona e ni.) :D
jan Ape
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Re: 124- monsuta

Post by jan Ape »

janMato wrote:
jan Ape wrote:sitelen tawa pi monsuta(?) - Horror movie(?)
jan Ape o nimi sina li pona tawa mi. I'm just posting this mostly to provoke a response from jan Kipo. Heh heh.

sitelen tawa monusta.
monsuta modifies picture. The salient qualities of the picture is that it is moving and it is monstrous.

cf
sitelen tawa pi monusta kon. This is a ghost movie. The salient feature is that the picture moves and it has ghosts (monusta kon)
mi pilin pakala. nimi pi li weka e nimi ijo tan nimi ijo ante.
I'm mistaken. The word "pi" separates a noun from another noun (that has an adjective).

By the way, It's monsuta not monusta, :P
janKipo
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Re: 124- monsuta

Post by janKipo »

To jan Ape first
Yes, I guess it does say that, but as a very minor part of a much larger symphony of ideas about tp (and one actually rejected in another movement in the whole -- but so are some of the more dominant motifs as well). So, I don't see that as a useful rationale for new words.
But finding uses for monsuta is useful and these are some handy ones (but, note that 'pi' requires two words after it). The note that alasa differs from kama jo is also helpful.

to jan Mato (better Pooh than Piglet) All the strings you not work and all but the first four are discouraged -- but the ones with two 'pi's are often necessary and used. I have seen three and had a rough job of it if the intervening bits were more than two words (the ambiguity of all such constructions increases exponentially, of course).
As so often, it is not clear whether it is kon monsuta or monsuta kon. Thanks for your vote.

jan Josan. lon. tenpo pini la nimi 'akesi' li nimi ike tason tenpo kama la nimi 'monsuta' kin li nimi ike. taso nimi 'monsuta' li nimi ike taso ala. jan li ken kepeken e nimi 'akesi' kin tawa ni: jan li nimi ike e jan ante.

jan Ape second.
Don't shoot off "adjective" and "noun" to freely; monsuta is both (or neither, depending on how you do this). But 'pi' still requires two following words, whatever their nature (right grouping within left).
Logomachist
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Re: 125- monsuta

Post by Logomachist »

Now that I look at it, monsuta may be a very good word for Toki Pona:

pilin monsuta (fearful feeling)
Wouldn't "pilin monsuta" be "feeling monstrously"?
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jan Josan
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Re: 125- monsuta

Post by jan Josan »

Logomachist wrote:
Now that I look at it, monsuta may be a very good word for Toki Pona:

pilin monsuta (fearful feeling)
Wouldn't "pilin monsuta" be "feeling monstrously"?
It would probably suffer the same ambiguity as moku soweli - food for animals, or animals as food?
janKipo
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Re: 125- monsuta

Post by janKipo »

Probably that , too (whatever it means) but the head-modifier relation is, as Mato regularly notes, about as vague as possible; context would be needed in each case. Watching a horror flick one might use it for fearful (there might be a monster behind me, oooh!) In a horror flick. a character might use it just before he transformed into a three headed ground sloth -- with fangs.
Logomachist
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Re: 125- monsuta

Post by Logomachist »

moku soweli - food for animals, or animals as food?
My interpretation would be that "moku soweli" would be "animal feed".
"moku jan" would be "people food".
"soweli moku" would be a(n) animal(s) for eating.
"soweli moli moku" would be a dead editable animal.
janKipo
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Re: 125- monsuta

Post by janKipo »

It seems to depend on stress and (as usual for tp) circumstances. 'moku soweli' is food made of animals (not animals raised for food) when some Vegan is screaming at you ( 'mi moku e moku kala taso') but food for animals in the store, probably (though I can imagine it going the other way there, too). moku soweli is, after all, food, not animals, just as 'soweli moku' is animals, not food, per se. It could. of course, be animals that eat/are eating, for example.
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jan Ote
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Re: 125- monsuta

Post by jan Ote »

Animals as food are still just animals:
mi moku e kili. -- I eat fruits.
mi moku e kala. -- I eat fish.
mi moku e waso. -- I eat chickens.
mi moku e soweli. -- I eat pigs.

Though one can say:
mi wile alasa e soweli moku. -- I need to hunt an eatable animal (for meat, not for fur).
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