nimi sin sin (eĉ plu novaj vortoj, even more new words)

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mije Wi
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Re: nimi sin sin (eĉ plu novaj vortoj, even more new words)

Post by mije Wi »

Oh, I only knew this function. Thank you.
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jan-ante
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Re: nimi sin sin (eĉ plu novaj vortoj, even more new words)

Post by jan-ante »

mije Wi wrote:Can you make an example please?
ni li toki (pu/pi) mije Wi this is the talk of/about Wi
janKipo
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Re: nimi sin sin (eĉ plu novaj vortoj, even more new words)

Post by janKipo »

While still being unsure about the 'pi' version of "about", I am now sure that my second example, 'kama jaki ala' v 'kama pi jaki ala' is wrong. The principle is right, but, in fact, 'kama', as a modal, already sets up a right grouping, so 'pi' is unnecessary for the second reading. The first reading should be 'kama ala jaki'
mije Wi
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Re: nimi sin sin (eĉ plu novaj vortoj, even more new words)

Post by mije Wi »

So if I understand, about pi and pu, one should be for subjective genitive and the other for objective genitive.
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janMato
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Re: nimi sin sin (eĉ plu novaj vortoj, even more new words)

Post by janMato »

mije Wi wrote:So if I understand, about pi and pu, one should be for subjective genitive and the other for objective genitive.
Not object. At most oblique:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grammatical_cases
Oblique case all-round case; any situation except nominative concerning the house
UPDATE. Okay I'm reading this subject/object gentative... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genitive_case
Actually I'm not sure.

UPDATE 2. Okay, I got the diagnostic sentences.
as an agent ("She benefited from her father's love") – this is called the subjective genitive (Compare "Her father loved her", where Her father is the subject.)
meli li kama jo e pona tan olin pi mama mije.
as a patient ("the love of music") – this is called the objective genitive (Compare "She loves music", where music is the object.)
meli li pali tan olin pi kalama musi.

I'm not sure why toki pona would need this particular fine distinction any more than it needs any of the other 50 odd cases seen in natural languages.
janKipo
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Re: nimi sin sin (eĉ plu novaj vortoj, even more new words)

Post by janKipo »

And, of course, 'pi' is not a genitive marker (nor is 'pu', so far as we know); it merely marks a right grouping within a left grouping modifier structure. To be sure, possession is on common meaning of modification and possessors tend to take more than a word to say and so become right=grouped clumps, but any number of other relations do so as well, includng many that are purely adjectival/adverbial and this have no case relations at all.
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