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toki "Damin" li sama lili e toki pona. - Toki Pona Forums

toki "Damin" li sama lili e toki pona.

Altruism, alternative cultures, technology, simple living, sustainability, primitivism, etc.
Altruismo, alternativaj kulturoj, teĥnologio, simpla vivado, daŭrigebleco, primitivismo
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janMato
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toki "Damin" li sama lili e toki pona.

Postby janMato » Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:09 am

*edits in bold

meji "Steven Pinker" li meji pali pi sona toki. meji li sitelen e ni: "toki "Damin" li jo e nimi pi nanpa ale ale!" lon sitelen "The Language Instinct", linpu pi nanpa ale ale mute mute mute tu tu (264)". jan ante li sitelen e ni: toki "Damin" li jo e nimi pi nanpa ale mute mute luka luka (150) e nimi pi nanpa ale ale mute mute luka luka (250). *numbers now spelled out

toki pi nimi "Damin" li toki lili pi toki pi nimi "Lardil". toki pi nimi "Damin" li lon ma Oselija. *tokiponification of an ususual foreign word renders it unrecognizable and is a barrier to communication. The alternative I guess is to provide a glossary with posts?!

sona ni li sona musi mute e mi.

toki "Damin" li jo e nimi lili tan seme? toki "Damin" li toki pali pi toki sewi. jan toki li wile e ni: "jan ale li sona ala * e nimi ni : "jan pali pi ijo sewi li toki e nimi.""

* ... what's the rule on double negatives? English or Russian style?

Wikipedia article on Damin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damin


Popular Article on Damin
http://www.rickharrison.com/language/damin.html

Scolarly Article on Damin
https://segue.middlebury.edu/repository ... n_hale.pdf
Last edited by janMato on Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

janKipo
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Re: toki "Damin" li sama lili e toki pona.

Postby janKipo » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:11 pm


janMato
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Re: toki "Damin" li sama lili e toki pona.

Postby janMato » Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:03 pm


janKipo
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Re: toki "Damin" li sama lili e toki pona.

Postby janKipo » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:18 pm

I think you are overly pessimistic. As for predicates (what comes after 'li') you have
nouns that stay nouns (unless transitivized -- in which case they mean "makes object (after 'e') be a ...")
modifiers that stay modifiers (unless transitived -- as above)
verbs that stay verbs (change slightly when transitive, or, more likely, when intransitive)
prepositions disguised as verbs ('tawa' class take nouns as complements)
modals (take verb predicates as complement, 'wile' class)
'kama' that is somewhere in between (takes modifier and noun predicates, but not noun complements and lotsa other strange stuff)
All of these can be modified adverbially, nouns and modifiers also by nouns and modifiers. And 'ala,' which does its own thing.
The tricky part is to notice that the grouping of all these critters is different for modifiers and for complements.
Sorry, that just looks worse than before. but it is easy, once you get the hang of it, though hard to put into words succinctly. In any case, a given word doesn't enter into so many grammatical possibilities -- most have only one or two, and the worst I know has like four, usually clearly distinct (but, when not, doozies).

This information is interesting to me. Well, 'sona ni (borrowing your form) li namako e mi' 'li musi tawa mi' (not sure about that, but I think that is how the pieces line up, though 'musi e mi' may work , too). The crucial point is that the object of 'sona' is some mental thing, either what you know or what you mean, not you yourself.

depending on what the rest is 'wile kama tawa moku' can means as little as "wants to come to dinner," than which we can surely find something more complex. I like "wantsto become a ravening rover" myself.

janMato
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Re: toki "Damin" li sama lili e toki pona.

Postby janMato » Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:03 pm


jan Misite
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Re: toki "Damin" li sama lili e toki pona.

Postby jan Misite » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:07 pm

^^A bit more of a relex too though, yknow? If Basic English were relexed it would really be quite formidable if you calqued most of English's multiword verbs in, they're ridiculously productive...I've actually thought quite a lot about this.

The idea of a ceremonial language is awesome, and the opposite of practical. That is, it didn't have to have lots of redundancy nor deal with the distonctions of day today things, that was lardil's job. It could afford to be used abstractly. It's the opposite of a pidgin in a sense. It's like a functional Ithkuil.

The vocabulary would be very interesting to study but nfortunately it seems *very* dead or someone would be speaking it, right? I'll try to track down this book.

I can only guess how a 2-pronoun inclusive exclusive system could work. The following article seems to cast doubt on the analysis of the kinship terms.


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