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Who of us is really a toki pona master? - Page 5 - Toki Pona Forums

Who of us is really a toki pona master?

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loteni
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Re: Who of us is really a toki pona master?

Postby loteni » Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:33 pm

Reply to janpona120

point 1: semantic blob, is a term i made up meaning to consider all the words in a words definition as descriptive of a singular concept. This is wrong, in TP word definitions are pointing to many distinct concepts, which the word can mean distinctly.
For instance: suno: sun; light, brightness, glow, radiance.... etc... We shouldn't think suno is just a word that is a singular concept, but it distinctly means "sun" and also light...etc... not everything that is "light" is the "sun" or even related to it..etc....

point 2: Here I am referring to the different TP dialects. It is not correct to say someone is objectively wrong, unless they are wrong with respect to the dialect they are using. It is as silly as a scottish person correcting a londoner. Now on the other hand they could each make the claim of objective right/wrongness, with respect to the "queens english" - ie the official type of way of speaking that news reporters use. We have that in TP, its the official dialect from teh official book, so only they can really make such statements, and even so it would still be a pedantic, since the other dialects are accepted in their own domains anyway.

point 3: yes, it is a worthwhile endeavour. However I am pretty new to the language, it takes quite a while to learn. I would prefer to learn to the language before undertaking such a task.
Follower of the official dialect of toki pona as presented in the official book; Toki Pona, The Language of Good by Sonja Lang.

janpona120
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Re: Who of us is really a toki pona master?

Postby janpona120 » Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:38 pm


janKipo
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Re: Who of us is really a toki pona master?

Postby janKipo » Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:16 pm

Most words fall into several groups, stressing different factors. Which ones count? How much?
Being able to write the word list from memory is a Memrise trick, and relatively unimportant if you can remember the word when you need it.
No one should advance beyond ground zero, whatever that is, if they cannot regularly construct sentences with 'li' and 'e' (the first couple of lessons in the book, after all).
Not sure what construction you have in mind with 'en' 'li'. That is probably a bit later on, after you have the hang of the basics)
Why single out 'kama', which behaves like a bunch of other words that are more common ('wile' , say, and 'ken')?

Who will judge whether a person passes each step?

janpona120
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Re: Who of us is really a toki pona master?

Postby janpona120 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:47 pm


loteni
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Re: Who of us is really a toki pona master?

Postby loteni » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:54 pm

Just finding two people with mastery of the official dialect of TP, will be the first major hurdle. Of course if you are testing for different dialects you should make that clear.

Someone that has mastery of the most in use dialect, is barely at beginner level in the official dialect.
Follower of the official dialect of toki pona as presented in the official book; Toki Pona, The Language of Good by Sonja Lang.

janKipo
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Re: Who of us is really a toki pona master?

Postby janKipo » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:41 pm

Still don't know what groupings count

'en' also goes with prepositional phrases, so comes after 'li'.

Beginner don't see whole pictures because they don't have enough experience. We can show them major types and have them look for things that go into them, which is what textbooks mainly do. But what all goes into a frame will take some time to get in hand.

Memrise seems only to test for vocabulary, which is the least of knowing tp (though a necessary part).
Is kisa.ca still running? [added. I see that it is, but has nothing to do with tp, alas.]

janpona120
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Re: Who of us is really a toki pona master?

Postby janpona120 » Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:27 am


loteni
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Re: Who of us is really a toki pona master?

Postby loteni » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:11 am

Follower of the official dialect of toki pona as presented in the official book; Toki Pona, The Language of Good by Sonja Lang.

janpona120
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Re: Who of us is really a toki pona master?

Postby janpona120 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:30 am


loteni
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Re: Who of us is really a toki pona master?

Postby loteni » Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:24 am

hmm, "classic version of tp", that implies we have moved on from that. That is not true, the classic version is more equatable to the common dialect. However since it is common usage still, "classic" isn't really the right word.

Pu is the actual TP, Sonja who published TP first in 2001, which caught on pretty well, and then in 2014 finally released the information clarifying the actual way of TP.

Ofcourse by 2014 people already had mastery of their own ways using TP already, and there are already online resources for learning TP in different ways and different dialects, and they tend to have with them sets of tests that test your mastery with respect to that information.

So your question probably seems strange, since this is already built into the learning resources online already.

Also you could make your own new language based on what you have so far understood about TP, if you want. However wanting to modify TP really is crazy. People who want to change TP, fall into two main camps;

1. They want to add robot arms to a tree, so it makes cups of tea. OR
2. They want to sew the leaves of a tree together, so it functions better as a umbrella.

For 1; a tree is not supposed to make cups of tea, you want to make completely separate machine that does that.
For 2; a tree already functions well as a umbrella, just let it grow, sewing the leaves together will just destroy it.

Trying to modify something you have not fully grasped is a fools errand, for all you know it does do already and very well, that which you wished it would do, you just have not learnt the nature of the thing yet.
Follower of the official dialect of toki pona as presented in the official book; Toki Pona, The Language of Good by Sonja Lang.


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