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Toki Pona Forums • Describing Toki Pona with the computer language Prolog and DCG - Page 3
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Re: Describing Toki Pona with the computer language Prolog and DCG

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:57 pm
by janKipo
"modifier" works rather nicely in tp since there are no structural differences between adjectives and adverbs, only what they modify. I have a little trouble seeing 'suki' as an adverb in 'mi suli', say, since it seems only a noun is available to be modified. Similarly, 'ni li mi' for "this is mine", i.e. 'mi' as an adjective, seem rather odd, even in the face of 'ni li ijo mi'. One wouldn't, I think, take 'ni li jan' as "This is some man's".
for a conservative, by the book, grammarian, these are rather extreme moves from the norm (there may be hope for you yet).

Re: Describing Toki Pona with the computer language Prolog and DCG

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:12 am
by jan_Lope

Re: Describing Toki Pona with the computer language Prolog and DCG

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:42 am
by janKipo
It would be interesting to see just why the failed sentence fails, since it seems to pass (if just barely) a standard test or two. It is also unclear on a first careful reading what the differences are between the two runs on the second case. Still this is a very impressive job of mechanizing a very conservative tp grammar. Whether it could be extended -- by someone else, obviously -- to a more up-to-date version remains to be seen.

Re: Describing Toki Pona with the computer language Prolog and DCG

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:48 am
by janKipo
More careful reading. In the question case, the second parse has 'toki' as an adverb to 'wawa' as a transitive verb. But tp is rigorously NA, so the adverb has to come after the verb. I suspect there are possible ambiguities here, but the grammar should not support this one.

In the second case. There are two ambiguities discovered: 'pona' as noun, adjective, and verb and 'mute' as adjective (I suppose "many") and numeral."twenty" So we have "The time of many/twenty bigshots is a plus/is good/heals." But nothing about a very long time or a time of great (or many) expansions, all of which are also in text and, indeed, among the more likely readings ("A long time is good" being the obvious case). This results from the very narrow 'pi' rule that Lope actually sticks to, unlike his sources: what comes after 'pi' can only be noun + adjective. never, say, verb + adverb nor adjective + adverb. And certainly never something+ another 'pi' phrase nor a prepositional phrase.

Re: Describing Toki Pona with the computer language Prolog and DCG

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:07 am
by jan_Lope

Re: Describing Toki Pona with the computer language Prolog and DCG

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:15 pm
by janKipo
Odd as always, but useful sometimes. The most unintelligible thing is why all these end in false, which seems to say they are not grammatical, which they clearly are (in several ways). I suppose "false" means something else, "the end" maybe. The other notable things is the insistence that there is an invisible "be" verb in those cases where the verb slot is filled by a noun or adjective. The noun or adjective is then an object of yet another sort. While invisible "be" verbs are sometimes legitimate (in Greek, for example, as in "athantos he psyche" in my youth), that is because there are visible ones elsewhere and clearly connected. There aren't in tp, not anywhere. To be sure, the "be" is not listed as a morpheme under vb but as the whole of the verb part of vp, instead of "verb_x(be)". Of course, it is also odd that, once you have this, we don't have separate ones for a noun object and an adjective object. That is, this is just a borrowing of English "be" (and German "sein" and so on for many SAE languages). Given how conservative Lope usually is, and how fiercely loyal to (his vision of) Sonja, these are rather peculiar.

Re: Describing Toki Pona with the computer language Prolog and DCG

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:05 pm
by jan_Lope