janKesi wrote:"X la Y" means roughly "in context X, Y." It encompasses some of the "lon X" meanings but it's also more general than that.
janTepanNetaPelin wrote:janKesi wrote:"X la Y" means roughly "in context X, Y." It encompasses some of the "lon X" meanings but it's also more general than that.
toki!
Can you please give me an example, where it would be wrong to say "lon X", whereas "X la" is correct?
Thank you in advance!
Tepan
janKesi wrote:janTepanNetaPelin wrote:janKesi wrote:"X la Y" means roughly "in context X, Y." It encompasses some of the "lon X" meanings but it's also more general than that.
toki!
Can you please give me an example, where it would be wrong to say "lon X", whereas "X la" is correct?
Thank you in advance!
Tepan
well i feel the most obvious one is if/then phrases. whenever the la phrase is a full sentence instead of a single word or phrase it translates roughly as "If X then Y", this cannot be put clearly into phrases with lon. so "mi moku la, mi pilin pona" cannot be converted into *mi pilin pona lon mi moku, this is ungrammatical.
another example that comes to mind is expressing opinion or perspective. the standard way to express this with prepositions is with tawa, not lon. so "mi la, kili li pona" is roughly equivalent to "kili li pona tawa mi", and not "kili li pona lon mi."
lon is equivalent to la in scenarios involving time phrases and anything la-related using location. so "tenpo ni la, mi wile lape" is directly equivalent to "mi wile lape lon tenpo ni." similarly, "mi tawa lon tomo" is equivalent to "tomo la, mi tawa." these phrases correspond basically to "i move in the house" and "in the house, i move" in english, but the second one is more exceptional and would be less likely to be done in practice. expressing time with both la and lon are both basic usages.
janTepanNetaPelin wrote:I understand that Pije doesn't allow to start a la-phrase with a preposition, but official Toki Pona has no problem with that.
jan_Lope wrote:janTepanNetaPelin wrote:I understand that Pije doesn't allow to start a la-phrase with a preposition, but official Toki Pona has no problem with that.
toki!
On which page in pu is it written that you can start la-phrases (conditional-phrases) with a preposition?
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