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Toki Pona Forums • tan e nanpa pi toki pona
Page 1 of 3

tan e nanpa pi toki pona

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:24 am
by Ċ kjakto
I believe that the number words in Toki Pona, "wan", "tu", and "ala", could be used for a ternary or binary counting system. A number, for example the decimal 28, would be "wan ala ala wan" or 1001.

Re: tan e nanpa pi toki pona

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:42 am
by janKipo
Both systems -- in several forms -- have been presented over the years. None have achieved any popular support in the community, which seems evenly split between not thinking that large numbers (bigger than three, say) are important and thinking that only a decimal place notation system can replace the present system. The systems work fine, but no one wants to relearn mathematics (or learn it for the first time, for that matter).

Re: tan e nanpa pi toki pona

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:36 pm
by Baerdric
Yes. I've recently posted about this using a reverse positional notation because we do not have place names (hundreds or thousands etc)

I think you can find the thread here with an introductory video.
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=2605

Re: tan e nanpa pi toki pona

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:02 pm
by jan Pina

Re: tan e nanpa pi toki pona

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:33 pm
by janKipo
Well, not quite Roman style, but I get the idea. There would be a number of problems to iron out -- grouping, for example, and the possibility that one might want to use 'kulupu', say. just to refer to groups and 'nanpa' can't be used to demarcate number usage. And, of course, we still don't have a solution here for telephone numbers or PINs or other ID numbers, which pretty much force decimal notation.
Did Slavic languages really have no numbers or just no numerals, like Greek and Hebrew?
I don't get the technique of the last example and the second one is ambiguous (although the result is the same either way).

Re: tan e nanpa pi toki pona

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:45 am
by jan Pina
Yeah. Phone numbers or other id's will be a pain without a Decimal notation. So old Slavic way or conventional Arabic numbers looks like only possible solution for this.
Old Slavic alphabet got no special characters for numbers. So they used alphabet letters to encode numbers.
See a table Image
Each Slavic letter used to have a word associated with it. This word being a name for a number associated with the letter.
To distinct numbers from letters they used diacritic sign ~ above the letter.

Re: tan e nanpa pi toki pona

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:08 am
by janKipo
So Slavic had numbers, just not numerals and they made up that lack with a fairly clunky system -- as did all Europe until the arrival of Hindarabic numbers in the Crusades. This doesn't help tp a lot, although it does have nine consonants which would do nicely for numerals in a decimal system. But it seems to have the usual numerals already, so that is not the problem. The problem is an open-ended system of words to express any number (whole, for now -- fractions and the like come a lot later).

Re: tan e nanpa pi toki pona

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:49 pm
by jan Pina
Hi
I just learned that TP has more numbers than we even actually need. :)
There is luka -5 mute-20 ali-100 so by using multiplication we can easily represent any number we need.

You know. To learn an extra hundred words and get an extra language as a bonus is a great bargain.
But to forget a few numbers in order to relearn all the math... Such trade sucks a big time. :)
For scientific and trade purposes people would use decimal notation anyway.

Re: tan e nanpa pi toki pona

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:21 pm
by janKipo
But that notation has no verbal equivalent, so is outside the language.
As for multiplication, we have no agreed on way to do that, but, if we did, the addition of a few more words would not make a significant difference ( how have you missed 'luka' up to now?).

Re: tan e nanpa pi toki pona

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:54 pm
by jan Pina