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Toki Pona Forums • nasin nanpa kepeken toki pona/How to count in toki pona - Page 3
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Re: nasin nanpa kepeken toki pona/How to count in toki pona

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:45 am
by jan Lapale
It's not about multiplication, but about how many times a number is repeated. And it's not an English calque, I am French so I did a copy of French: deux fois= tenpo tu= two times.

Re: nasin nanpa kepeken toki pona/How to count in toki pona

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:42 pm
by janKipo
Right, so it might just as well be a French calque. But <fois> in these expressions gets to "time" only in English translations. It seems to mean "occasion, occurrence", about a happening, not about a date. So, 'kama' seems a better calque, if we leave English out. But, as I say, maybe 'tenpo' is the right tp; I just worry about falling into the familiar without considering what is going on in tp itself.

Re: nasin nanpa kepeken toki pona/How to count in toki pona

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:40 pm
by jan Lapale
Yes, that's what I meant, "occurence, occasion".

Re: nasin nanpa kepeken toki pona/How to count in toki pona

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:09 pm
by janSilipu
But that is not "time", at some appropriate level.

Re: nasin nanpa kepeken toki pona/How to count in toki pona

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:46 am
by jan Lapale
Yes, but there is a notion of time inside of those words. And in toki pona, words don't have a meaning that can't change, just a general idea. So you can create new meanings related to the word. For example, monsuta means monster, but some people had the idea to use it with the meaning "to be frightened", "to be afraid of".

Re: nasin nanpa kepeken toki pona/How to count in toki pona

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:19 am
by janKipo
Okay, now you are making a case independent of mere L1 (and L2) happenstance. I am not particularly convinced but I don't have any reason to object either.
What you say about tp words is true within limits -- but the limits aren't well-defined. 'monsuto' (which may not make the "final" cut for the word list) is a nice case in point. the central idea is fear, but it has been taken to mean both fearful and fearsome. If it is basically a verb meaning ''is afraid of, fears", then the meaning "monster" is fairly automatic (the genus of the DO) and hence the intransitive verb "is fearsome". If it is a noun, "monster." to begin with, then being afraid of something is just making that something into a monster, and frightening someone is siccing a monster on them (this notion is harder to explain from the initial verb). So far, the pattern has not been completely worked out. Nor has the limits of the fear involved -- does it include, for example, hatred or repulsion?

Re: nasin nanpa kepeken toki pona/How to count in toki pona

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:35 pm
by jan Lapale
Very good philosophical question. hate is more wile pakala I think, and repulsion is wile ala lon poka ona. In tp, when you need a word, you say the definition, for example tomo tawa telo= vehicle who moves on water= boat. The definition depends on how you think, so the word is not the same depending on who you are, you have to create your own words depending on the definition you give to it.

Re: nasin nanpa kepeken toki pona/How to count in toki pona

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:53 pm
by janSilipu
Yes and no. You have to take others into account because you want to be understood. Too often a private expression misses because the reader doesn't get to the same place as the writer.

Re: nasin nanpa kepeken toki pona/How to count in toki pona

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:19 am
by Cvi

Re: nasin nanpa kepeken toki pona/How to count in toki pona

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:24 am
by Cvi