experimental changes.

Tinkerers Anonymous: Some people can't help making changes to "fix" Toki Pona. This is a playground for their ideas.
Tokiponidistoj: Iuj homoj nepre volas fari ŝanĝojn por "ripari" Tokiponon. Jen ludejo por iliaj ideoj.
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jan Kewen
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:21 am

experimental changes.

Post by jan Kewen »

here are a few changes i've made before. i dont suggest anyone use them (unless they want to) but i am writing them to see people's opinions.

new word: ke

when writing stuff down for myself i dont usually like the toki pona construction: "e ni:".'
so i came up with the word ke (borrowed from spanish), and i think it fits in well.

some examples:

"mi toki e ni: mi pana e moku tawa jan lili" becomes "mi toki ke mi pana e moku tawa jan lili"
"mi pilin e ni: sina jan pona" becomes "mi pilin ke sina jan pona"
etc.

change tawa to ta:

purely asthetic but i think a word as common as tawa should be one syllable,

i.e. ona li pona ta mi.
also mi pana e ona ta sina.

make toki pona tripartite: (i was bored).

i.e. (lu is intransitive, li is transitive)
toki pona lu pona. toki pona is good.
ona li pana e pona ta ale. it makes everyone happy.

i'm sure i have more, when i think of them i will add them. :ugeek:
Delphij
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:59 pm
Location: ma Wensa (ma Lowasi)

Re: experimental changes.

Post by Delphij »

new word: ke
I think "e ni:" works, and a new word for that would be unneccesary.
change tawa to ta:
Doesn't it assemble "tan" a little too much then? But I too like one-syllable words.
make toki pona tripartite: (i was bored).
This one was interesting.
For example if I want to say that I enchance without telling what I do it do. "mi pona (e ijo). "
Kuti
Posts: 358
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:48 pm

Re: experimental changes.

Post by Kuti »

Interesting. But i don't like the ta. I found tawa sounds more pleasant.
janMato
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:21 pm
Location: Takoma Park, MD
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Re: experimental changes.

Post by janMato »

But if ke worked like que, then we'd have relative clauses and make phrases that describe things based on what they do (an not just what they are).

mi olin e meli ke lukin e telo suli. I love the woman who stares at the sea.

I have a post somewhere using pu in such a manner for the translation of a whole song.

Re: li & lu
I'm not sure of what the verbal system lacks that I miss the most. This sort of extension would be good because if the reader didn't know the distinction, they could ignore it and if they were speaking, they could fake it (and say l+ schwa)
janKipo
Posts: 3064
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: experimental changes.

Post by janKipo »

Two different "que"s. In tp terms, the one is just a shorthand for 'e ni:" but the other has no place as such, requiring a separate sentence with dicey connections (mainly ni as a modifier). That is just one of the limits that a limited language has to work with, but tp manages.
jan Kewen
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:21 am

Re: experimental changes.

Post by jan Kewen »

janMato wrote:But if ke worked like que, then we'd have relative clauses and make phrases that describe things based on what they do (an not just what they are).

mi olin e meli ke lukin e telo suli. I love the woman who stares at the sea.
that is exactly what i mean, seriously, you can even use it to be more complex while not having to create new words.
i.e. "lipu mute pi toki awen ke pana e sona tawa sina" = an ultraspecific way of saying encyclopedia. :ugeek:
janMato wrote:I have a post somewhere using pu in such a manner for the translation of a whole song.
lol. i never thought of pu, still like ke better though, as pu sounds too much like a word for excrement. :lol:
jan Kewen
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:21 am

Re: experimental changes.

Post by jan Kewen »

janKipo wrote:Two different "que"s. In tp terms, the one is just a shorthand for 'e ni:" but the other has no place as such, requiring a separate sentence with dicey connections (mainly ni as a modifier). That is just one of the limits that a limited language has to work with, but tp manages.
exactly, and spanish has even more uses than that, but ke is not que. phonetically i derived ke from que but functionally ke is just meant as a kind of clausal separator (only the first que). to give toki pona a level of expression more on par with other languages.
jan Kewen
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:21 am

Re: experimental changes.

Post by jan Kewen »

Delphij wrote:
new word: ke

I think "e ni:" works, and a new word for that would be unneccesary.
like i said i just use it in my own writing, i like toki pona, but am most just a conlanger, and not a daoist.
alot of times i like to use clauses, and not split up my sentences. also,
i do not strive for simplicity at all, i like toki pona for its oligoisolating properties so it would be natural that i would trying to express everything i can in tp.
change tawa to ta:

Doesn't it assemble "tan" a little too much then? But I too like one-syllable words.
it does, but that is a good thing, words that differ by only one sound form minimal pairs in language, and reinforce phonemic structures (in this case -n).
make toki pona tripartite: (i was bored).
This one was interesting.
For example if I want to say that I enchance without telling what I do it do. "mi pona (e ijo). "
hmm... intransitive verbs dont have objects at all, even implied ones in parentheses. but... "mi pona." can be "i improve" or "i got better" etc.

also, i may have overlooked before that in a tripartite toki pona one has to differentiate between adjectives and intransitive verbs therefor lu would be mandatory in an intransitive sentence. i.e. mi lu wile. "i want." / mi wile. "i am jealous/envious". although mi wile e ona. is still acceptable as e shows it is a transitive verb because it is basically an accusative marker.
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