Numbers again!

Tinkerers Anonymous: Some people can't help making changes to "fix" Toki Pona. This is a playground for their ideas.
Tokiponidistoj: Iuj homoj nepre volas fari ŝanĝojn por "ripari" Tokiponon. Jen ludejo por iliaj ideoj.
Kuti
Posts: 358
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:48 pm

Re: Numbers again!

Post by Kuti »

We have this
http://en.tokipona.org/wiki/Numbers

this
http://en.tokipona.org/wiki/Advanced_numbers
this advanced number system is not recommended. However, it is provided as an option for those people who absolutely must know how to express complex numbers like 142 in Toki Pona
And this
http://en.tokipona.org/wiki/the_problem_of_infinity
Toki Pona only uses simple numbers like one, two and many
jan-ante, I'm one of those who don't fit with mathematics and don't get it. For me, numbers are one of the worst things ever. It is only how I feel.
And I like toki pona for the lack of numbers and maths. I'd love to be born in a world without numbers.

taso, mi jan nasa :?
Jan KoAla
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:30 pm

Re: Numbers again!

Post by Jan KoAla »

Been a bit busy, but I'd like to clear up a few things.

I'd like to define the problem a bit more.

I think it's pretty cool to have the current number system as a fun way to think about things and if toki pona is used more as a game, there is no problem with it. However, if toki pona is used more as a real language problems come up.

Numbers come up for a number of practical things like dates, ages, and telephone numbers (among other things). The big problem is that regardless of whether or not these numbers exist in an easy to process way in toki pona, they will still come up. That is to say, by not having the numbers in toki pona, the numbers are not gone. And any system that becomes too complicated will result in a similar just relying on one's native language.

This is all a pretty minor problem as toki pona isn't trying to be a major language at all, and fits more of a role-playing-game-like role.

As for jan Kuti and his math, I have to reiterate that being no good in math doesn't make it not exist. However, the idea of simplicity in toki pona can be kept, there just needs to be an alternative to defaulting to one's native language for numbers/math.
jan Kewen
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:21 am

Re: Numbers again!

Post by jan Kewen »

I have come up with a system for my conlang which only partially exists so far, it is mostly based off of greek and latin with a toki pona like grammar with modifications and some extreme differences. Im not going to elaborate on the conlang since this is a toki pona forum but i will show the numbering system, maybe someone will find it useful. also in my conlang there is some inflections so i will be using the noun form of the numbers which has the ending -os, the numbers are as follow:

0 - zeros (taken from modern languages as latin and greek both lacked the concept of zero)
1 - monos
2 - dios
3 - trios
4 - tetros
5 - pentos
6 - hexos
7 - heptos
8 - octos
9 - novos
10 - dekos

the number and dekos can be combined to create larger numbers e.g.:

hexa monodekos - 60
hexa didekos - 600
hexa tridekos - 6000

all the way up to
nova novodekos - 9000000000

the can be added together to create more complex numbers althought it gets long winded but most natural languages do too.

nova novodekos et hexa didekos et trios - 9000000603

some more random numbers:

4538 - tetra tridekos et penta didekos et tria monodekos et octos
34 - tria monodekos et tetros
634 - hexa didekos et tria monodekos et tetros
86 - octa monodekos et hexos
4353 - tetra tridekos et tria didekos et penta monodekos et trios
66 - hexa monodekos et hexos
867 - octa didekos et hexa monodekos et heptos
375 - tria didekos et hepta monodekos et pentos
456 - tetra didekos et penta monodekos et hexos

i created this entirely on my own using notepad except for the words obviously as they are from greek mostly but the structure is the creation. any similarity to any other system used by any other language is merely a coincidence and is highly likely as there really are only so many ways of doing things...

well there it is let me know what u think.
Kuti
Posts: 358
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:48 pm

Re: Numbers again!

Post by Kuti »

jan Koala i understand your point, but the aim of toki pona with numbers is to avoid to use them.

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=81
As Sonja said at the end of the first post, it is only an option. And the system is intended to be painful if you want to say 5246551 :lol:

For dates i only use tenpo kama or tenpo pini ( + mute ), for ages i use lili or suli or mute. I don't know for phone numbers, but here is a good question, maybe the actual system can be good enough.
ala en luka wan en( pu) luka wan pu luka tu tu pu luka wan pu luka tu tu wan pu wan pu tu pu wan pu luka tu tu wan
:o :? :lol: ahaha too long
in the past phone numbers were shorter

But i know math exists, but i wish it don't exists !!! That is why the messed up toki pona number system is really reliving to me :mrgreen: REVENGE ON MATHS !!! :twisted: :twisted: :lol:
o pakala e nasin nanpa ! :twisted: :mrgreen:
Last edited by Kuti on Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jan KoAla
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:30 pm

Re: Numbers again!

Post by Jan KoAla »

So quickly, Jan Kewen, your system looks pretty neat, I think it might be too complicated for an auxiliary to the toki pona one though. I'll look at it again in more detail later though.

Jan Kuti, I don't disagree with you about the general spirit of the language (even if I don't care for it). However, there should be an agreed upon auxiliary so communication has the option to stay in toki pona rather than shifting languages for something like numbers. I'm still waking up, but this should make some sense still! *sips coffee*
janSilipu
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:21 am

Re: Numbers again!

Post by janSilipu »

The only legal way to introduce new words into tp is as proper adjectives. This allows introducing numbers as part of dates and addresses which are, after all, names of times and places. All of these names are in decimal place notation, so other systems need not be considered. Now, once we have a system for these cases (and alphabets, too), some people may be inclined to use them in strictly inappropriate ways or to finagle the syntax to make them technically appropriate. We may condemn these practices, but if they are continued, we may eventually have to admit them as part of the language.
jan Kewen
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:21 am

Re: Numbers again!

Post by jan Kewen »

@jan Koala i just figured i would throw it out there, my way of contributing. It is actually pretty regular and i did'nt really write it in an easy to use format as it was just something i wrote on my computer at like 4am like a year ago. It is no doubt too complicated as my conlang is being designed to be an order of magnitude more complicated than toki pona. Thanks for the input though as it is difficult to determine how complicated something is if you're the one who designed it.
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