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Toki pona after two generations of erosion - Toki Pona Forums

Toki pona after two generations of erosion

Tinkerers Anonymous: Some people can't help making changes to "fix" Toki Pona. This is a playground for their ideas.
Tokiponidistoj: Iuj homoj nepre volas fari ŝanĝojn por "ripari" Tokiponon. Jen ludejo por iliaj ideoj.
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janMato
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Location: Takoma Park, MD
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Toki pona after two generations of erosion

Postby janMato » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:51 pm

Horseless carriage and automobile couldn't stay long words in English, they're in-optimally long given their frequency, thus we have car and auto.

I wrote a program, probably a bit buggy, to erode TP by removing letters. If it would cause a conflict, I didn't remove the final letters. If I couldn't make things shorter due to a conflict, I'd check to see if I could erode by changing the last CV syllable to an "n", although this process should have been favored for situations where the syllable was m+V, so we get scenarios were 'pa' became 'n'. Erosion occurred alphabetically-- if I had eroded in random order, I would have gotten different results.

The next logical erosion would be to turn all VN syllables to nasal vowels without the N, although that would make TP kind of hard to speak. Something for future versions.

Aggressive erosion also leads to a lot more one and two letter words, which makes the lack of rules about sandhi more obviously problematic (more long runs of multiple vowels and semivowels).

mi wi we e te ta lawa mi
mi wile weka e telo tan lawa mi.
I want to dry my hair.

-- First generation
a --> a
akesi --> ake
ala --> an
alasa --> alasa
ale --> ale
ali --> ali
anpa --> anpa
ante --> ante
anu --> anu
awen --> awe
e --> e
en --> en
esun --> esu
ijo --> i
ike --> in
ilo --> ilo
insa --> insa
jaki --> ja
jan --> jan
jelo --> je
jo --> jo
kala --> ka
kalama --> kan
kama --> kama
kasi --> kasi
ken --> ke
kepeken --> kepeke
kili --> ki
kin --> kin
kipisi --> kipi
kiwen --> kiwe
ko --> ko
kon --> kon
kule --> ku
kulupu --> kulu
kute --> kun
la --> la
lape --> lan
laso --> laso
lawa --> lawa
len --> le
lete --> lete
li --> li
lili --> lin
linja --> linja
lipu --> lipu
loje --> lo
lon --> lon
luka --> lu
lukin --> luki
lupa --> lun
ma --> ma
mama --> man
mani --> mani
meli --> me
mi --> mi
mije --> min
moku --> mo
moli --> mon
monsi --> monsi
mu --> mu
mun --> mun
musi --> musi
mute --> mute
namako --> nama
nanpa --> nan
nasa --> na
nasin --> nasi
nena --> ne
ni --> ni
nimi --> nin
noka --> no
o --> o
oko --> on
olin --> oli
ona --> ona
open --> ope
pakala --> paka
pali --> pa
palisa --> palisa
pan --> pan
pana --> pana
pi --> pi
pilin --> pili
pimeja --> pime
pini --> pin
pipi --> pipi
poka --> po
poki --> pon
pona --> pona
pu --> pu
sama --> sa
seli --> se
selo --> sen
seme --> seme
sewi --> sewi
sijelo --> sije
sike --> si
sin --> sin
sina --> sina
sinpin --> sinpi
sitelen --> sitele
sona --> so
soweli --> sowe
suli --> su
suno --> sun
supa --> supa
suwi --> suwi
tan --> ta
taso --> taso
tawa --> tawa
telo --> te
tenpo --> ten
toki --> to
tomo --> ton
tu --> tu
unpa --> un
uta --> u
utala --> utala
walo --> wa
wan --> wan
waso --> waso
wawa --> wawa
weka --> we
wile --> wi
----------------
Next Gen ----------------
----------------
a --> a --> a
akesi --> ake --> ake
ala --> an --> an
alasa --> alasa --> ala
ale --> ale --> ale
ali --> ali --> ali
anpa --> anpa --> anpa
ante --> ante --> ante
anu --> anu --> anu
awen --> awe --> awe
e --> e --> e
en --> en --> en
esun --> esu --> esu
ijo --> i --> i
ike --> in --> in
ilo --> ilo --> ilo
insa --> insa --> insa
jaki --> ja --> ja
jan --> jan --> jan
jelo --> je --> je
jo --> jo --> jo
kala --> ka --> ka
kalama --> kan --> kan
kama --> kama --> kama
kasi --> kasi --> kasi
ken --> ke --> ke
kepeken --> kepeke --> kepe
kili --> ki --> ki
kin --> kin --> kin
kipisi --> kipi --> kipi
kiwen --> kiwe --> kiwe
ko --> ko --> ko
kon --> kon --> kon
kule --> ku --> ku
kulupu --> kulu --> kulu
kute --> kun --> kun
la --> la --> la
lape --> lan --> lan
laso --> laso --> laso
lawa --> lawa --> lawa
len --> le --> le
lete --> lete --> len
li --> li --> li
lili --> lin --> lin
linja --> linja --> linja
lipu --> lipu --> lipu
loje --> lo --> lo
lon --> lon --> lon
luka --> lu --> lu
lukin --> luki --> luki
lupa --> lun --> lun
ma --> ma --> ma
mama --> man --> man
mani --> mani --> mani
meli --> me --> me
mi --> mi --> mi
mije --> min --> min
moku --> mo --> mo
moli --> mon --> mon
monsi --> monsi --> monsi
mu --> mu --> mu
mun --> mun --> mun
musi --> musi --> musi
mute --> mute --> mute
namako --> nama --> nama
nanpa --> nan --> nan
nasa --> na --> na
nasin --> nasi --> nasi
nena --> ne --> ne
ni --> ni --> ni
nimi --> nin --> nin
noka --> no --> no
o --> o --> o
oko --> on --> on
olin --> oli --> oli
ona --> ona --> ona
open --> ope --> ope
pakala --> paka --> paka
pali --> pa --> pa
palisa --> palisa --> pali
pan --> pan --> pan
pana --> pana --> pana
pi --> pi --> pi
pilin --> pili --> pili
pimeja --> pime --> pime
pini --> pin --> pin
pipi --> pipi --> pipi
poka --> po --> po
poki --> pon --> pon
pona --> pona --> pona
pu --> pu --> pu
sama --> sa --> sa
seli --> se --> se
selo --> sen --> sen
seme --> seme --> seme
sewi --> sewi --> sewi
sijelo --> sije --> sije
sike --> si --> si
sin --> sin --> sin
sina --> sina --> sina
sinpin --> sinpi --> sinpi
sitelen --> sitele --> site
sona --> so --> so
soweli --> sowe --> son
suli --> su --> su
suno --> sun --> sun
supa --> supa --> supa
suwi --> suwi --> suwi
tan --> ta --> ta
taso --> taso --> tan
tawa --> tawa --> tawa
telo --> te --> te
tenpo --> ten --> ten
toki --> to --> to
tomo --> ton --> ton
tu --> tu --> tu
unpa --> un --> un
uta --> u --> u
utala --> utala --> uta
walo --> wa --> wa
wan --> wan --> wan
waso --> waso --> waso
wawa --> wawa --> wawa
weka --> we --> we
wile --> wi --> wi
The End ----------------

janKipo
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Re: Toki pona after two generations of erosion

Postby janKipo » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:11 pm

Cute! Not very realistic, since changes don't generally happen in the way described (but moves to related notions like car or components like auto). Also, throng of word lengths in tp is too narrow to make most Zipian changes invisible;that is, words are already about the right length and rare ones rare more likely to get longer than common ones shorter. The most likely shift I see is ilo taking on the roles of kepeken, which is relatively too long.

Tomaniki
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Re: Toki pona after two generations of erosion

Postby Tomaniki » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:42 pm


janKipo
Posts: 3064
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Re: Toki pona after two generations of erosion

Postby janKipo » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:06 pm

Presumably, stress will always keep these apart, even with shorter words. Of course, 'kepeken' is a virtual repetition of 'ilo', so maybe we should make the shorter word take on all the roles of the longer.


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