replacement for "ken"

Tinkerers Anonymous: Some people can't help making changes to "fix" Toki Pona. This is a playground for their ideas.
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jan-ante
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:05 pm

Re: replacement for "ken"

Post by jan-ante »

janKipo wrote: I have trouble reading 'ala ken' as "0 possibility/probability", since that seems backward.
but ala has a noun meaning like zero, nothing. it is extremely rare in current use of tp. so i make it less rare
Everybody has intuitions about logic and they are generally good enough to keep us from the big traps.
well, in this case not everybody but 50%
janKipo
Posts: 3064
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: replacement for "ken"

Post by janKipo »

problem less with 'ala' as "zero", then with 'ken' as "probability" when in the modifier position. On the other hand, 'ken ala' is going t0 be read as "impossible/impossibility". Maybe 'ken pi sama ala" "possibility that equals zero". But it will be obscure whatever we do.

Hopefully, the subjects would do better with other traps.
jan-ante
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:05 pm

Re: replacement for "ken"

Post by jan-ante »

janKipo wrote:problem less with 'ala' as "zero", then with 'ken' as "probability" when in the modifier position. On the other hand, 'ken ala' is going t0 be read as "impossible/impossibility". Maybe 'ken pi sama ala" "possibility that equals zero". But it will be obscure whatever we do.
yes i see.to fix the point we have to use pi and some modifier: pana pi ala pi ken tawa or pana pi ken tawa ala
janKipo
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Re: replacement for "ken"

Post by janKipo »

pana e ala, I think. not sure what the tawa does here, or is it part of the final prepositional phrase? 'ala' surely needs some help here, as would ken or ken ala. I have nothing further to suggest.
jan-ante
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:05 pm

Re: replacement for "ken"

Post by jan-ante »

janKipo wrote:pana e ala, I think.
to emitt nothing? not clear
not sure what the tawa does here, or is it part of the final prepositional phrase?
obstacle (on the road) pana pi al pi ken tawa (pi pasin ni)
tawa is a modifier to permitt use of pi and thereby render ken as "opportunity/possibility (of going)". if the obstacle is relaten not to nasin then we need another modifier
janKipo
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Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: replacement for "ken"

Post by janKipo »

is not the basic point that speaker gives the road a score of zero on some scale? mi pana e ala tawa nasin. Now we need to work in the scale on which the zero occurs, presumably the possibility of advancing down the road (a zero may be lower than need; a .3 might be enough to constitute an obstacle). The scale is, say, ken pi tawa sinpin. Now, can this be attached to ala with a mere pi and get the results we want? I think so. At least it is hard to think what else it migt mean.
Of course, the safe way is: mi pilin e ni: mi ken ala tawa sinpin lon nasin ni.
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