mi wile ante e toki pona

Tinkerers Anonymous: Some people can't help making changes to "fix" Toki Pona. This is a playground for their ideas.
Tokiponidistoj: Iuj homoj nepre volas fari ŝanĝojn por "ripari" Tokiponon. Jen ludejo por iliaj ideoj.
bronger
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Re: mi wile ante e toki pona

Post by bronger »

jan-ante wrote:
bronger wrote:I just asked my Russian collegue to pronounce all this, and "л" really is *very* close to "l".
then take your chance, ask him to read the following:
(ударение на 1й слог!!)
ала
але
алэ

and feel the difference. the 1st is ala, the 2nd is ale in my pronouciation, the 3rd is what should be said
Well, we're both out of office right now, but accoring to
http://translate.google.com/#ru|en|%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8D, the third is indeed the right one.
Torsten Bronger
janPona
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Re: mi wile ante e toki pona

Post by janPona »

Wow lot of response, thanks.
jan Ote wrote:
janPona wrote:Oh and someone would like to read mangas in toki pona?
I translated a bit of "Highschool of the Dead" to Toki Pona but not sure about copyright.
http://forums.tokipona.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1343#p6840 wrote:jan lili mi li sitelen e toki ante. jan ante li pali e sitelen musi li sitelen e nimi lon sitelen ni kepeken toki Inli. ni li sitelen pi nimi Inli Manka. jan lili mi li kama jo e sitelen nimi ni li sitelen e nimi sin kepeken toki pona. ona li pana e ni tawa mi. mi lukin. taso ona li ken ala pana e ni tawa jan ante. jan ante li ken ala lukin e ni. mama pi sitelen Manka ni taso li ken pana e ni tawa jan ante. ni li nasa.
You don’t expect me being able to translate this, do you? :oops:
Understanding Toki Pona is much harder than writing.
Can you give me some hints?
jan-ante wrote: generally the changes you propose are tooo radical to be accepted
I don’t care if they will be accepted, they are just ideas.
I am just interested in language design and what is technically the best solution, if people want toki pona to stay like it is now then it should stay.
jan-ante wrote: good point but bad suggestion. this will introduce too many words and supports obsolete decimal system. i advocated ternary (based 3) system, but the colleaguse say it is too complex.
I guess ternary would be at least an improvement to now.
But why obsolete decimal system?
Most people use decimal system I think.
Also I don’t think some more words would hurt toki pona that much.
Just stay away from the magical 200 mark. ;)
Kuti wrote: When I was at school maths class was an horrible time for me. I was not good at that. I know a lot of things but not maths.
School maths is a different story.
The only reason i didn’t always skipped that class was a classmate with awesome nena meli ;)
But i really don’t want to live in a society that doesn’t know any math.

About manga translation:
How do I translate "dont scare me like that" ?
janMato
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Re: mi wile ante e toki pona

Post by janMato »

About manga translation:
How do I translate "dont scare me like that" ?
sama ni la o monsuta ala e mi!
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jan Ote
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Re: mi wile ante e toki pona

Post by jan Ote »

jan-ante wrote:
janKipo wrote:I had heard that Polish had l/w problems; sorry to hear about Russian too.
well, not really. may be this is for polish ear only
It must be a misunderstanding. We have no serious problems with l/w. Neither in Polish, nor in Russian or English. Standard way of transcription Cyrillic script into Polish is: Ломоносов -> Łomonosow, Ленин ->Lenin, where "L" stands for [l], and the letter "Ł" is pronounced like [w] in English words "were", "will". Without trying to use a proper Russian pronounciation I was taught many years ago, I pronounce "ласка" like [waska] and "лев" like [liev].

Probably the misuderstanding goes from the fact, that both in Russian and Polish writting systems one sign "Л"/"L" - from lambda/L - is a basis for two sounds. Moreover, for centuries Polish "ł" was in fact pronounced like Russian "л", which isn't realy [w], but somewhat similar sound. When one watches old movies or hears sound recordings from the pre-WWII era, he can hear that while actors or upper class used this traditional pronounciation, general public or politicians pronounced "L" in the modern way. Today we use "Ł" for [w] - and it sounds like a consonant version of . Then now this would be a reason to change orthography - "Wałęsa" would be written as "Vawęsa" [va.wen.sa]. a a a!
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jan Ote
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Re: mi wile ante e toki pona

Post by jan Ote »

janPona wrote:You don’t expect me being able to translate this, do you? :oops:
Understanding Toki Pona is much harder than writing.
Can you give me some hints?
jan lili mi li sitelen e toki ante. jan ante li pali e sitelen musi li sitelen e nimi lon sitelen ni kepeken toki Inli. ni li sitelen pi nimi Inli Manka. jan lili mi li kama jo e sitelen nimi ni li sitelen e nimi sin kepeken toki pona. ona li pana e ni tawa mi. mi lukin. taso ona li ken ala pana e ni tawa jan ante. jan ante li ken ala lukin e ni. mama pi sitelen Manka ni taso li ken pana e ni tawa jan ante. ni li nasa.
My child wrote a different talk. ('different' fo context, because this text was an answer.) Other person made a fun images and wrote words on these images using English language. They are images/writings of English name "Manka" (manga). My child took the images and wrote new words using toki pona. He gave this to me. I looked/saw. But he cannot give this to other people. Other people cannot see this. Only the author of this manga images/writings can give this to other people. This is stupid/crazy.
jan-ante
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Re: mi wile ante e toki pona

Post by jan-ante »

janPona wrote: I guess ternary would be at least an improvement to now.
But why obsolete decimal system?
Most people use decimal system I think.
it is a rudimentary system
tenpo pini mute la jan li nanpa e ijo kepeken palisa luka ona. jan li jo e palisa luka 10. tan ni la nappa 10 li lon insa pi nasin nanpa ni. tenpo ni la jan li kk e ilo nanpa. ilo nanpa li kk e nasin pi nanpa tu. tan ni la nasin pi nanpa 2/4/8/16 li pona mute tawa jan pi tenpo sin. nasin pi nanpa 8 anu 16 (this is not really grammatically correct, but aniway)li pona tawa mi
ken la nasin pi nanpa 3 li nasa. taso ona li namako tan ni: nanpa 3 li lili. ni li sama toki pona: ken la tp li nasa tawa jan mute tan ni: nanpa pi nimi pi toki pona li lili. taso ni li namako: ona li pona tawa mi li pona tawa sina li pona tawa jan ante mute
jan-ante
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Re: mi wile ante e toki pona

Post by jan-ante »

bronger wrote: Well, we're both out of office right now, but accoring to
http://translate.google.com/#ru|en|%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8D, the third is indeed the right one.
but is the difference between 1st and 2nd clear for you?
janKipo
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Re: mi wile ante e toki pona

Post by janKipo »

I'm a dodecemalist myself, but for present times in the real world, decimal systems are what is needed.
janPona
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Re: mi wile ante e toki pona

Post by janPona »

janMato wrote: sama ni la o monsuta ala e mi!
Oh using the new word monsuta, thanks!
jan Ote wrote:
jan lili mi li sitelen e toki ante. jan ante li pali e sitelen musi li sitelen e nimi lon sitelen ni kepeken toki Inli. ni li sitelen pi nimi Inli Manka. jan lili mi li kama jo e sitelen nimi ni li sitelen e nimi sin kepeken toki pona. ona li pana e ni tawa mi. mi lukin. taso ona li ken ala pana e ni tawa jan ante. jan ante li ken ala lukin e ni. mama pi sitelen Manka ni taso li ken pana e ni tawa jan ante. ni li nasa.
My child wrote a different talk. ('different' fo context, because this text was an answer.) Other person made a fun images and wrote words on these images using English language. They are images/writings of English name "Manka" (manga). My child took the images and wrote new words using toki pona. He gave this to me. I looked/saw. But he cannot give this to other people. Other people cannot see this. Only the author of this manga images/writings can give this to other people. This is stupid/crazy.
Thanks.
I misinterpreted "toki ante" as "different language" so it didn’t make much sense for me. :oops:
jan-ante wrote: it is a rudimentary system
tenpo pini mute la jan li nanpa e ijo kepeken palisa luka ona. jan li jo e palisa luka 10. tan ni la nappa 10 li lon insa pi nasin nanpa ni. tenpo ni la jan li kk e ilo nanpa. ilo nanpa li kk e nasin pi nanpa tu. tan ni la nasin pi nanpa 2/4/8/16 li pona mute tawa jan pi tenpo sin. nasin pi nanpa 8 anu 16 (this is not really grammatically correct, but aniway)li pona tawa mi
ken la nasin pi nanpa 3 li nasa. taso ona li namako tan ni: nanpa 3 li lili. ni li sama toki pona: ken la tp li nasa tawa jan mute tan ni: nanpa pi nimi pi toki pona li lili. taso ni li namako: ona li pona tawa mi li pona tawa sina li pona tawa jan ante mute

mi pilin pona tan ni: mi sona e nimi sina.
(But I am very slow, a proper translation would take me lot of time)
janPona
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Re: mi wile ante e toki pona

Post by janPona »

I am currently wondering how you would write an If sentence with more than one condition in Toki Pona.

like:

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if cond1 and cond2 then something
Maybe with la:

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cond1 la cond2 la something
But since la also means something like "when" you would expect cond1 to alter cond2 so maybe with "en":

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cond1 en cond2 la something
The second would also work for "or".

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cond1 anu cond2 la something


What about combining both:

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cond1 en(-)la cond2 la something
But what about stuff like:

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if (cond1 or cond2) and cond3 then something
Well English and I guess the majority of natural Languages fail here anyway but I like to think about it just for fun.

We could use "pu" for parentheses too.

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pu cond1 anu cond1 pu-pini en cond2 la something
Or some very special way:

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cond1 anu cond2 en-wan cond3 then something
would mean:

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if cond1 or (cond2 and cond3) then something
but:

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cond1 anu cond2 en-tu cond3 then something
would be:

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if (cond1 or cond2) and cond3 then something
You don’t understand?
Well doesn't matter, I just happen to have some weird ideas without practical use sometimes.


Oh and I translated a bit more of the manga.
Since I didn't translate word by word and not very good and only 10 pages of the first chapters I guess it qualifies as fan art or something like that.
http://rapidshare.com/files/420018504/hotd_1_10_tp.zip
If I get some input from you guys about it I might translate more or other mangas or comics.
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