mi wile ante e toki pona

Tinkerers Anonymous: Some people can't help making changes to "fix" Toki Pona. This is a playground for their ideas.
Tokiponidistoj: Iuj homoj nepre volas fari ŝanĝojn por "ripari" Tokiponon. Jen ludejo por iliaj ideoj.
janMato
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Re: mi wile ante e toki pona

Post by janMato »

janPona wrote:I am currently wondering how you would write an If sentence with more than one condition in Toki Pona.
la, li, pi and e conjoin by forming chains (and maybe the prepositions, I'm not sure)
When en in put in one of these phrase it generally prompts a feeling of mixture.
mi tawa en lape. I'm sleep walking.
mi moku e pan en suwi. I'm eating blended bread and candy.
But since la also means something like "when" you would expect cond1 to alter cond2 so maybe with "en":
I suspect that when a la fragment set the time, that it covers the sentences up to the next la fragment mentioning time.

tempo pini la mi tawa li pali. tempo kama la mi moku li pona li lape.

tempo pini la mi jo ala e mani la mi tawa li pali. tempo kama la mi jo e mani la mi moku li pona li lape.

X anu Y la looks fine, not sure when I'd use it.

mi moli anu mi kama jo e mani suli la mi tawa musi lon ma pi toki pona. If I die or win the lotto, I'll retire to the land of toki pona/heaven.
What about combining both/cond1 en(-)la cond2 la something
toki pona has some "area effects"-- that is when the features of one language bleed over into another because the speaking community is familiar with both. So there is some lojban like stuff going on, some esperanto type stuff going on. But tp isn't really all that rigorous with respect to logic-- it would be surprising if it was rigorous given that one can barely do arithmetic in any way that anyone can agree on. For example, the "X la Y probably doesn't mean "if X then Y", because when X is false and Y is true, the sentence as a whole is true in propositional logic, but in colloquial English, it would be nonsense because an if X then Y sentence leave the listener expecting there to be some relationship before it can mean anything. True or false: If Washington DC is the capital of the US, then English is the national language of England. T then T, therefore true. But it's nonsense.
if (cond1 or cond2) and cond3 then something
We could use "pu" for parentheses too.
Both scenarios are bad ideas is programming because ordinary people have a hard time parsing more than a few logical symbols at time. When it is all spoken, even more so.
You don’t understand? Well doesn't matter, I just happen to have some weird ideas without practical use sometimes.
If you could come up with some examples, in them there might be an idea of use. I've always thought that if a language is to be short on lexical solutions, then it will develop more solutions of other sorts-- prolly grammar, but maybe math and logic-- to make up for it.
Oh and I translated a bit more of the manga.
pona a! And a new editorializing word for ciggy-boos!

And it is probably, o weka tan mi! Get off me! not "o weka lon mi"
janKipo
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Re: mi wile ante e toki pona

Post by janKipo »

Can't use 'en' between sentences, maybe can't use 'anu' either.
S1 la S2 la S3 is equivalent (logically) to if both S1 and S2 then S3, but "logically" doesn't cover possible effect of on3 condition on another. This stringing can be carried on indefinitely, but I think that if you find yourself writing a long string of conditions, it is time to rethink and rewrite. In any case, the S1 anu S2 la S3 is simply ambiguous and should not be done. I don't expect any one to replace S1 anu S2 with S1 ala la S2, either. Abd I certainly don't expect conjunction subscripts. (jaki!)
No one knows what 'pu' is supposed to mean; your guess is as good (and bad) as any other.
Precision is not for languages but for technical jargons, though tp may be less inclined that way than some others.

'en' definitely means mixture only with verb (instead of 'li') and DOs )instead of 'e'); otherwise it can be either. I don' think it is used between PPs.
I expect that, if temporal contiguity was stressed, the sentence for the event would come first and the temporal 'tenpo ni la' second.
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jan Ote
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Re: mi wile ante e toki pona

Post by jan Ote »

janPona wrote:If I get some input from you guys about it I might translate more or other mangas or comics.
a! monsuta!

01_010.jpg: "mi toki e ni: o weka lon me!" is a broken sentence, as jan Mato said. Probably the meaning of the original text is "I say/said (tell/told you?): go away from me!" or "get off me". Anyway, it looks like there is "from me", so "tan mi" should be used.
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