nimi pi mute seme la sina pilin toki pona li wile jo?

Tinkerers Anonymous: Some people can't help making changes to "fix" Toki Pona. This is a playground for their ideas.
Tokiponidistoj: Iuj homoj nepre volas fari ŝanĝojn por "ripari" Tokiponon. Jen ludejo por iliaj ideoj.
pisku
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nimi pi mute seme la sina pilin toki pona li wile jo?

Post by pisku »

nimi pi mute seme la sina pilin toki pona li wile jo?
number much ? ; you think toki pona should have?
(what about this? is correct?)

if you could choose how many words would you put in toki pona? or at what number of words would you stop?
125 as it´s right now and stop improving? less than 125? or maybe a few more?

mi pilin e ni: toki pona li wile jo e nimi 180

I think 180 words it´s a good number or maybe reach 200 words and then stop, I mean, there are lot´s of ideas that you can´t express because there is no word for that, and I´m not talking about numbers.

So my number is between 180 and 200 final word list, what yo think?
Last edited by pisku on Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
janKipo
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Re: nimi pi mute seme la sina pilin e toki pona li jo?

Post by janKipo »

After some point. the numbers get arbitrary; the issue is expressibility, Right now there is little evidence that there is something we cannot say -- in the appropriate context -- except numeral and letters. We do know that there are some redundant words already, so we could got to fewer, perhaps. But there is not an obvious reason to go to more (suggestions welcome however -- with appropriate evidence).
I take it your title is a case of topic raising, not a clearly stated role of 'la' in tp but a real possibility. However, there has to be a nark of the raising, so 'jo e ona' at the end. Also, 'pilin's direct objects are thought and feelings, so 'toki pona' is inappropriate. It is, at the moment, not clear how to do "about" but whatever the final form is, the object is presumably the number again and so 'ona'. The mention of toki pona then probably should be part of the topic, but the double 'pi' involved gets messy. Maybe rephrase the whole as 'sine pilin e ni: nanpa pi nimi pi toki pona li wile seme.' "What do you think the number of words in tp should be?"
pisku
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Location: Mexico City

Re: nimi pi mute seme la sina pilin e toki pona li jo?

Post by pisku »

sine <- (sina) pilin e ni: nanpa pi nimi "pi" (e) toki pona li wile seme ? <-

why so many "piss" (pi) hahaha! (juvenile joke, sorry) XD, what if I change the last pi for an e?
it´s correct?
janKipo
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Re: nimi pi mute seme la sina pilin e toki pona li jo?

Post by janKipo »

Nope. 'e' comes only after a verb to introduce the DO; neither ' nimi ' nor 'nanpa' is a verb in this context. The repetition of 'pi' is inelegant but it is often hard to avoid without really long paraphrases.
pisku
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Re: nimi pi mute seme la sina pilin e toki pona li jo?

Post by pisku »

:o yeah I see, still testing my skills and trying to understand toki pona texts :p
janMato
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Re: nimi pi mute seme la sina pilin e toki pona li jo?

Post by janMato »

"toki pona li wile e nimi pi nanpa seme?" How many words does tp need?

"sina pilin e seme tawa ni: toki pona li jo e nimi mute li jo e nimi lili tan nanpa pi nimi pi tenpo ni?" <-- A stretch to get a sense of comparatives

If this is a poll for fun, then here is my answer for fun. I'm a moderate progressive on syntax and a conservative on vocabulary. I think the syntax will grow to make up for what toki pona lacks lexically. I oppose adding any more words (hold the line at monsuta!) I oppose makingarchaic any words that have circulated (namely noka). I think proper modifiers are a enormous cheat and should be used mostly for people and places, not for loan words-- i.e. nasin pona is preferable to nasin To.
Last edited by janMato on Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
janKipo
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Re: nimi pi mute seme la sina pilin e toki pona li jo?

Post by janKipo »

I'd go with 'mute' rather than 'nanpa' here, just because 'nimi pi napa seme' looks like "the whatth word" (although then it probably wouldn't need the 'pi').
I favor conservatism in all matters, making as full as possible use of all grammatical and lexical resources. Note, however, that 'To' is a proper name in this context.
janMato
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Re: nimi pi mute seme la sina pilin e toki pona li jo?

Post by janMato »

janKipo wrote:I'd go with 'mute' rather than 'nanpa' here, just because 'nimi pi napa seme' looks like "the whatth word" (although then it probably wouldn't need the 'pi').
I favor conservatism in all matters, making as full as possible use of all grammatical and lexical resources. Note, however, that 'To' is a proper name in this context.
What exactly then is proper? It has something to do with being specific and naming one thing-- common nouns take the the and plural, while proper nouns don't... usually. The names and places seems reasonable, everything else gets fuzzy and philosophical. Even names aren't clear. "There are two Johns in my class." "I'm visiting the Himilayas" (plural and takes "the").

How many Taoism are there? From the yellow pages I can see there are quite a few Christianities.

If two Daoist philosophers were arguing, then couldn't one say,

A: "nasin pona mi li lon."
B: "ala. nasin pona mi li lon. nasin pona mute (pi) mi mute li ante."

Speaking of proper modifiers your POS article is missing a section on proper modifiers.
janKipo
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Re: nimi pi mute seme la sina pilin e toki pona li jo?

Post by janKipo »

Thanks for the reminder on proper modifiers; but they are hard to list.
English is fuzzy on proper nouns -- and mass nouns and most every other kind of noun, come to that. tp is relatively clear, nouns are all count, apparently, and propers are all modifiers only. (And don't forget the slightly old-fashioned usages like "the Argentine" and "the Lebanon", or maybe just different ways of conceptualizing what has become mainly an arbitrary political notion.)
jan-ante
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Re: nimi pi mute seme la sina pilin toki pona li wile jo?

Post by jan-ante »

pisku wrote:nimi pi mute seme la sina pilin toki pona li wile jo?
number much ? ; you think toki pona should have?
(what about this? is correct?)
could you do some favour for me? please, translate your question into Spanish.
thank you in advance
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