Big numbers / nanpa suli

[jan.jelome]

toki!

mi jo e pilin tawa nanpa. mi pilin e ni: mi sona e nanpa pi kili insa moku kili sike la ni li namako. mi sona e nanpa mi pi sike suno la ni li pona. nanpa pi nanpa li wile lili.

I have a request about numbers : I’m agree with the fact there is not importance if I eat 16 or 21 cherries, or if there is 99 or 111 Smurfs. But in my opinion it could be usefull to give precisely some dates or ages. And it should be not “ike” to have the possibility to use big number simply.
In “tokiponian” we have 4 numbers : ala (0), wan (1), tu (2), luka (5). “ala” is particular because it is used for ‘0’ but not for the digit ‘0’ (like the second digit in 108).
With my system we use “digits” and “packages” : 1st package = 5, 2nd package = 5x5 = 25, 3rd package = 5x5x5 = 125, …
The name of a package is “luka” and each package is 5 times bigger than previous one.

Example :
tu wan luka tu tu luka tu = (tu wan) (luka tu tu) (luka tu) = 3 + 5 x 4 + 25 x 2 = 73
We start by the unity else it is impossible to know the importance of each digit before the number has been pronounced completely. And obviously a true "Tokiponian" won’t do any calculation or translation in our numeric system : for him the above number will be simply : "tu wan luka tu tu luka tu".

Examples (the final [wan] after a “luka” can be deleted because there is no ambiguity) :

0 : ala
1 : wan
2 : tu
3 : tu wan
4 : tu tu
5 : luka [wan] = 0 + 5 x 1
6 : wan luka [wan] = 1 + 5 x 1
7 : tu luka [wan] = 2 + 5 x 1
8 : tu wan luka [wan] = 3 + 5 x 1
9 : tu tu luka [wan] = 4 + 5 x 1
10 : luka tu = 0 + 5 x 2
11 : wan luka tu = 1 + 5 x 2
...
24 : tu tu luka tu tu = 4 + 5 x 4
25 : luka luka [wan] = 5 x 0 + 25 x 1
26 : wan luka luka [wan] = 1 + 5 x 0 + 25 x 1
...
99 : tu tu luka tu tu luka tu wan = 4 + 5 x 4 + 25 x 3
100 : luka luka tu tu = 0 + 5 x 0 + 25 x 4
101 : wan luka luka tu tu = 1 + 5 x 0 + 25 x 4
...
2010 : luka tu luka luka wan luka tu wan = (luka tu) (luka) (luka wan) (luka tu wan) = 0 + 5 x 2 + 25 x 0 + 125 x 1 + 625 x 3

Again, I insist : a true “Tokiponian” won’t do any calculation or translation, the quantity will be evident for him (like us with 2010 = 2 x 1000 + 0 x 100 + 1 x 10 + 2).
A good thing : we can named 2010 with only 8 words !!! And the result is easy to understand whereas the actual requires to use “luka” 402 times in a row !!!
Isn’t it ”pona mute” ?

Best regards
Jan Jelome

[jan-ante]

this problem was dicdussed several times in this forum. i suggested ternaty system instead of decimal, but it was too complex for the users. probaly they will say your system is a complex one too.
in fact, tp is generally written, not spoken language. so when people need to write the age or the year, they just write 99 or 2010 without any hesitation

[janMato]

Well, it's like an initiation rite. Every new toki ponan needs to propose a number system. Base 2, 3 and 10 have already been done. I proposed base 11 for it's supreme impracticality. Base 4 counting is a natural progression.

The numbers used should achieve a desired stylistic effect-- roman style, e.g. MMLTW have a feeling of age to them.

ale ale ale ale ale mute mute luka tu wan is for mocking counting, because it is impractical for numbers over about 150 or 300.

Conlang features that are too hard to use, or have serious design effects are unstable. By that I mean, either they get no adoption at all, or they will evolve out of necessity.

Any number system that requires repeating a lot of similar sounds will evolve.

luka luka luka luka....nanpa la mi sike e suna. sina sona ala sona e mi? tu wan pi luka luka tenpo la mi sike e suno kepeken nasin (nanpa) pi nanpa luka luka.
I am five and five and five... years old. What you don't understand? I've circled the sun 3 by 10 times in the way of the number system 10.

To maintain a number system that requires repeating one word dozens of times in a confusing manner would require a community of speakers that is not only hostile to numbers, but hostile to the people they talk to and their way of life. (You ordered 10 (a lot of) pizzas? I gave you 8 (a lot of pizza), why are you unhappy, the numbers are close enough are they not?)

[jan.jelome]

And why not to simply named the number like this :
2010 = tu en ala en wan en ala
63512 = luka wan en tu wan en luka en wan en tu

At least is very simple to read, to understand and this system uses the base 10

[janMato]

Why? Because it is indeed recognizable as a base 10 system.

Why not? Because it ends up in too much repetition. I personally like the base 10 proposals that assign existing tp words to each digit from 0 to 9 and then the separator is only needed at the decimal point.

[janKipo]

As always(this really has been around a lot), I suggest we get a way to read the 10 numerals (and probably the 26 or so letters)so we can speak the numbers we use: addresses, telephone numbers, urls. If you want math after that, you are on your own, with no central support.