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Three-vowel system? (Rename ken?) - Toki Pona Forums

Three-vowel system? (Rename ken?)

Tinkerers Anonymous: Some people can't help making changes to "fix" Toki Pona. This is a playground for their ideas.
Tokiponidistoj: Iuj homoj nepre volas fari ŝanĝojn por "ripari" Tokiponon. Jen ludejo por iliaj ideoj.
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janTe
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Three-vowel system? (Rename ken?)

Postby janTe » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:49 am

I notice that there was once a proposal to reduce Toki Pona to a three-vowel system. I assume this would be the three-vowel system used by Arabic (a, i, u). It would make Toki Pona more accessible to all the Arabic speakers of the world.

I was thinking about how an Arabic-speaker would pronounce Toki Pona. I assume /o/ would be merged with /u/, and /e/ would be merged with /i/. To my surprise, this doesn't actually create many problems. /o/ and /u/ are non-contrastive in the Toki Pona vocabulary, and /e/ and /i/ are mostly non-contrastive. (Incidentally, "i" and "e" are the two letters I most mix up in Toki Pona, mostly in multi-syllable words like sitelen or kepeken.)

The only place where /e/ and /i/ are contrastive are in the words ken and kin. (Interestingly, ale and ali are both valid words, but they mean the same thing.)

So if I had my druthers, I'd rename ken to "kan". That leaves us with only three contrastive vowels in the Toki Pona core vocabulary, and ensures that the core vocabulary is usable by Arabic speakers.
Last edited by janTe on Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

janMato
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Re: Three-vowel system? (Rename ken?)

Postby janMato » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:05 am


janTe
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Re: Three-vowel system? (Rename ken?)

Postby janTe » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:24 pm


jndn
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Consonant-based system 77? Re: Three-vowel system? (Rename k

Postby jndn » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:41 am

Pona tawa tota!

I have a similar idea, to make all vowels facultative, to give more freedom for native speakers.

In many languages, the word pona is associated with: bon, bone, buona, buone, bonus. They can be typed in tp as follows: pona, bona, pone, bone, buone, puone, bonu, or just PN or BN, since pronunciation of P and B is not distinguished in toki pona.

The same thing with kama: come, came, kam, kommen. It can be just CM or KM in toki pona.

My idea is to reduce any tp word to two consonants as follows: CC, and allow any vowels to be added to the speaker's taste.

Thus, the stem of the word will consist of two consonants, which reduces the total amount of words to 9*9=81, or even to 77.
It is difficult, but possible!

Words a, e, o change to la, le, lo.
Additional modifier lu is proposed, to change post-positive order to pre-positive.
E.g. toki pona = lu pona toki or tk pn = lu pn tk
jan nasa = jn ns = jnns = lu nasa jan = lu ns jn = lunsjn
jan nasa li wile ante e toki pona = jn ns li wl km lu pn tk

Below, an example of modification of the tp dictionary is given.

TP word Noun Adj./Adv. Verb Prep. Aux. ChangeTo Reduced
a wama wm
akesi ugly animal pipi pp
ala nothing no, not no! nala nl
ale, ali everything every tota tt
anpa bottom low, down pasa ps
ante difference different change or else kama km
anu conj or poka pk
awen remaining stay, keep jape jp
e dir.object le le
en conj and la, lu la, lu
ijo something somethng objectify nijo nj
ike badness wrong to be/mk bad jaki jk
ilo tool with kepe kp
insa inside inner tasa ts
jaki dirt dirty pollute jaki jk
jan person human personify jan jn
jelo mod yellow ? ? site jalo ??
jo n having have, contain jojo jj
kala n fish kala kl
kalama sound, noise noise, sound wama wm
kama begin coming come, start kama km
kasi plant, herb kasi ks
ken possibility can possible jojo jj
kepeken vt use prep with kepe kp
kili n fruit, mushroom nuta nt
kin mod too sama sm
kiwen stone,metal hard, solid kiwi kw
ko semi-solid koj kj
kon air wind smell air-like, ethereal, gaseous kon kn
kule colour, paint colourful vt colour, paint site st ?
kute mod auditory, hearing vt listen, hear pili pl ?
kulupu group public mute mt
la la la
lape sleep, rest sleeping vi sleep, rest jape jp
laso blue(-green) ? ? site kasi ???
lawa head mind main leading lead, control jawa jw
len cloth, fabric jasa js
lete cold cold cool down jete jt
li sep (verb) li li
lili small, little reduce kiki kk
linja long string ? ?
lipu flat thing kata kt
loje red ? ? site (...)?
lon be there be in/at/on tasa ts
luka hand, arm pawa pw
lukin visual see, look woko wk
lupa hole, door jama jm
ma land, earth mapa mp
mama parent of the parent GIVEBIRTH mama mm
mani moneywealth ? ? ? (kata) musi
meli woman female mewi mw
mi I, we my, our mina mn
mije man male mije mj
moku food, meal eat, drink moku mk
moli death dead die, kill moli ml
monsi back, behind back, rear ? ?
mu interj moo! wama wm
mun moon lunar numo nm
musi fun, game artful, fun play, amuse musi ms
mute amount many, much make many mute mt
nanpa number oth –th mute mt
nasa silly, crazy make weird nasa ns
nasin way, method kepe kp
nena nose, hill nena nn
ni this, that nijo nj
nimi word, name wama wm
noka leg, foot noka nk
o sep (imper.) lo lo
oko eye woko wk
olin love love to love pili pl
ona she, he, it her, his jan jn
open open, turn on kama km
pakala accident ruin, break damn! jaki jk
pali work deed workng do,make,work kepe kp ??
palisa long hard obj nena nn ??
pana giving give, place pawa pw ?
pi sep of pij pj
pilin feelings feel, think pili pl
pimeja darkness dark darken pime pm
pini end, tip past, ago end, close moli ml
pipi bug, insect pipi pp
poka side, next to neighbouring prep with poka pk
poki container sije sj ??
pona goodness good improve great! OK! pona pn
sama same like, as sama sm
seli fire, heat hot, warm heat, cook seli sl
selo outside, skin jasa js ??
seme oth wh-? wata wt
sewi high, top superior wapa wp
sijelo body sije sj
sike circle, ball round sike sk
sin new renew kama km
sina you your sina sn
sinpin front, face jawa jw
sitelen picture draw, write site st
sona knowledge know sosa ss
soweli mammal sowe sw
suli size big, tall enlarge wawa ww
suno sun, light jalo jl
supa hor. surface supa sp
suwi candy sweet, cute sweeten pona pn
tan origin, cause from, by tana tn
taso only, sole but wan wan
tawa movement moving go to, move to, for tawa tw
telo water, liquid water,wash telo tl
tenpo time, moment tepo tp
toki talk, speech talking say, talk hi! toki tk
tomo home domestic tomo tm
tu duo, pair two double, cut tuj tj
unpa sex sexual have sex nupa np
uta mouth oral jama jm
utala conflict hit, strike puta pt
walo whiteness white ? ? site numo ?
wan unit, part one, a unite, make one walo wl
waso bird bird’s FLY? waso ws
wawa strength strong strengthen wawa ww
weka absence away thrw away weja wj
wile need, will necessary want, must wile wl

janMato
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Re: Three-vowel system? (Rename ken?)

Postby janMato » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:47 am

There already is some prior art for 2 letter code systems:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1165

jndn
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Re: Three-vowel system? (Rename ken?)

Postby jndn » Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:37 pm


janKipo
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Re: Three-vowel system? (Rename ken?)

Postby janKipo » Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:09 pm

And that with a few arbitrary cases but no relearning of words.


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