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Are there any words you've found yourself wanting? - Page 5 - Toki Pona Forums

Are there any words you've found yourself wanting?

Tinkerers Anonymous: Some people can't help making changes to "fix" Toki Pona. This is a playground for their ideas.
Tokiponidistoj: Iuj homoj nepre volas fari ŝanĝojn por "ripari" Tokiponon. Jen ludejo por iliaj ideoj.
jan Akesimun
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Re: Are there any words you've found yourself wanting?

Postby jan Akesimun » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:38 pm

I kinda lost track of the conversation about page two a a a, but since I write and translate tp a lot, I've run into several concepts that seem not to want to break down into it. Oddly for a Taoist conlang, the hardest has been tao. Is it pu (which, as the only undefined in my dictionary is starting to bug me more than it should), or would it be nasin with a few modifiers, or can tp just not express the inexpressible yet? Some word like law, or custom, or principle also has been troublesome. Something like nasin kulupu is the best I can come up with, but it doesn't seem to express rule or practice or such very well. Also what would put or place be? Awen? Other than those, I agree with jan Te about a bend/turn/fold word, jan Josan about one meaning sharp/pointy, and jan Pisku's suggestions (left, right, put in/insert/enter/poke/puncture. Unless the last would be unpa...?
Yo estuve aquí.

janMato
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Re: Are there any words you've found yourself wanting?

Postby janMato » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:22 pm


janKipo
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Re: Are there any words you've found yourself wanting?

Postby janKipo » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:30 pm

'tao' is indeed just 'nasin'; what is inexpressible goes unexpressed. But as janLosi says, we can :D callit whatever we want (and never be more wrong than right). Taoism is nasin To.
'pu' is a mystery, but seems to be intended as a function word. Several suggestion have been made for it's use: separate off final PPs, use in place : to indicate significantly connected sentence, introduce restrictive relative clauses. No clues which it actually is, though the second seems the most neede (and goes a way toward the third).
'nasin kulupu' serves for tribal customs, any sort of regular pattern of doing things is 'nasin'.
mi lon E ijo musi lon (or tawa) kasi suli, which nobody objects to, and mi lon kasi suli e ijo musi, which everybody hates.
'awen e x' apparently means "wait for x"
Until I hear definitively otherwise, I would restrict 'unpa' strictly to copulation and not go off on either extensions (bees 'unpa' flowers) or, as here, metaphors. I would think that 'palisa' as a verb means, poke or stab. Whether that extends to insertion, I don't know. "enter" is just 'tawa insa' (so insert is probably the transitive form). "puncture" is presumably "make a hole in".
Left and right wii probably be the last common notions to figure out.
The sharp, pointy word is, apparently, 'palisa'. The bend, fold is probably 'lipu'

But there are always more coming.

jan Akesimun
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Re: Are there any words you've found yourself wanting?

Postby jan Akesimun » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:02 am

Yo estuve aquí.

Kuti
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Re: Are there any words you've found yourself wanting?

Postby Kuti » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:54 am

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Last edited by Kuti on Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

janMato
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Re: Are there any words you've found yourself wanting?

Postby janMato » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:33 am


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Re: Are there any words you've found yourself wanting?

Postby janKipo » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:23 am

Sorry, 'lili' is the antonym to both 'mute'' and 'suli', so, "a few" as opposed to "many" comes out 'lili'. Some people use 'mute lili', which I don't quite get, but is taken to mean "a few".
I think of 'mi tawa e ilo kapisi lon pan' as spreading butter or the like.
'mi tawa insa pan e ilo kapisi' doesn't need long (which, in fact, confuses things).
Well, the easiest"live" is 'lon', "be present, hence, exist", but that is not much help in distinguishing live from dead when both are around. Just 'moli ala' for now -- something better may turn up.
Relative speed, like every comparison (so far, I see a move to using 'mute' and 'lili'), requires two sentences. x li tawa wawa mute. y li tawa wawa lili. together mean x is faster than y.
I haven't figured out how Mato's V+pi+NP works yet, but its official purpose -- for a right grouping modifier of the verb -- is not used much, so maybe a new use can be introduced. Or maybe what he is after is a right-grouping modifier.


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