Clause-trophobia
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:25 pm
The accusative clitic "e" and the other clitics "sama", "lon", "kepeken", etc. seem to be related. They seem to serve the role of prepositions or cases. We can by canon, write this:
[noun phrase] e ni : [sentence]. And the sentence after "ni" modifies "ni".
So if I have a thing in mind that takes a whole sentence (because it's actions are the salient features), I can refer to it in the accusative. But not the locative (lon), instrumental (kepeken), causal (tan), lative/dative (tawa), etc. This seems entirely unfair to deprive these prepositions of a clause introducing role.
Can I do the same with all the other preprositions? Has anyone else tried to? Can we trust a community reference even if it appears to be embedded in a sentence with other stylistic and grammar errors? And what is a santa clause? Inquiring minds want to know.
... prep + ni : [sentence]
... prep + ni : [noun phrase, i.e. sentence fragment]
Sometimes the "prep + ni" is followed by a ":" sometimes not.
We also have things like this, which gets really close to relative clauses.
... prep + [noun] + ni : [sentence]
... prep + [noun] + ni : [noun phrase]
I would have written "jan li sona li sona pona e sona ni: jan Sonja li mama pi toki pona" or People know and know well (the fact that) that Sonja is the inventor of toki pona.
This is either a clever extension to the canonical "e ni:" clause, or it is bad tp because there is a word in between "e" and "ni"
After excluding all phrases of the type
e ni: (canon)
lon ni : (also idiom for "here", but that isn't the sense I'm interested in.)
sama ni :
tan ni : (lots of people use this as the "because", although that would be an adverbial clause of cause and effect and should be in the la phrase)
* ken pali jan - I don't know what this phrase means. If it was a clause, then I would guess, pali jan ken, possible person work, ledgendary feats
tawa ni:
poki ni: (couldn't find any community usages.)
mi lukin poka ni : ma li anpa e ilo poki pi lete mute.
I looked in the place that is under the refrigerator.
kepeken ni: (couldn't find any community usages.)
mi wile pana e mani tawa jan kepeken ni : ilo li pakala e tomo.
I want to give money to the man with the machine that is demolishing houses.
insa ni : (not an offical prep, but suggestive of one)
mi wile tawa insa ni : mi ken lape kepeken ala kalama.
I want to go in where I can sleep without noise.
-----
jan Mato li mi li jan ala pi sona toki. mi kama sona e toki ala.
I'm a fake linguist who studies fake languages.
[noun phrase] e ni : [sentence]. And the sentence after "ni" modifies "ni".
So if I have a thing in mind that takes a whole sentence (because it's actions are the salient features), I can refer to it in the accusative. But not the locative (lon), instrumental (kepeken), causal (tan), lative/dative (tawa), etc. This seems entirely unfair to deprive these prepositions of a clause introducing role.
Can I do the same with all the other preprositions? Has anyone else tried to? Can we trust a community reference even if it appears to be embedded in a sentence with other stylistic and grammar errors? And what is a santa clause? Inquiring minds want to know.
... prep + ni : [sentence]
... prep + ni : [noun phrase, i.e. sentence fragment]
Sometimes the "prep + ni" is followed by a ":" sometimes not.
We also have things like this, which gets really close to relative clauses.
... prep + [noun] + ni : [sentence]
... prep + [noun] + ni : [noun phrase]
People knows and knows well whom is Sonja, inventor of toki pona.jan li sona li sona pona e jan ni: jan Sonja li mama pi toki pona.
tokipona.wikia.com/wiki/jan_li_sona_e_jan_ni
I would have written "jan li sona li sona pona e sona ni: jan Sonja li mama pi toki pona" or People know and know well (the fact that) that Sonja is the inventor of toki pona.
This is either a clever extension to the canonical "e ni:" clause, or it is bad tp because there is a word in between "e" and "ni"
After excluding all phrases of the type
In the above sentence, I think "ni" is just modify "poka". If build this box, birds will chirp on me. When "prep + ni" is being used to set up a clause, the "ni" refers to something forward in the sentence."mi kama poka ni la waso li kalama lon mi."
sites.google.com/site/tokiponadave/
e ni: (canon)
lon ni : (also idiom for "here", but that isn't the sense I'm interested in.)
You all speak out your feelings where can a person an improve (their) toki pona?sina ali li toki e pilin sina lon ni : jan li ken ala ken pona e toki pona ?
forums.tokipona.org/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=445
sama ni :
We can say the words like "time of moving ocular heat"mi mute li ken toki e nimi sama ni: "tenpo pi selo oko tawa"
forums.tokipona.org/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=842&start=10
If she is in my room, she remains like an animal that is in a place of rut.ona li lon tomo mi la ona li awen sama ni: soweli li lon anpa soweli.
anadder.com/toki_pona/jan_lawa_lili/5
tan ni : (lots of people use this as the "because", although that would be an adverbial clause of cause and effect and should be in the la phrase)
Everyone can know the ledgendary feats on account of the fact that Eloto was from from the land of Alikansano and wanting that ....ale ken sona *e ken pali jan tan ni: jan Eloto lon ma tomo Alikanaso li wile e ni: .... etc
http://www.wessisc.co.uk/tokipona/eloto.html
* ken pali jan - I don't know what this phrase means. If it was a clause, then I would guess, pali jan ken, possible person work, ledgendary feats
Posate wants to give nastiness to Otesija on account of Otesija blinding Palipimu.jan Posate li wile pana e ike tawa jan Otesija tan ni: jan Otesija li pakala e oka pi jan Palipimu.
alelipona.blogspot.com/2009/06/otesi-nanpa-wan.html
tawa ni:
This page exists so that people can see writings in toki pona and speak with toki pona.lipu ni li lon tawa ni: jan li ken lukin e toki sitelen lon toki pona li toki kepeken toki pona.
alelipona.blogspot.com/2009/06/ijo-nanpa-wan.html
poki ni: (couldn't find any community usages.)
mi lukin poka ni : ma li anpa e ilo poki pi lete mute.
I looked in the place that is under the refrigerator.
kepeken ni: (couldn't find any community usages.)
mi wile pana e mani tawa jan kepeken ni : ilo li pakala e tomo.
I want to give money to the man with the machine that is demolishing houses.
insa ni : (not an offical prep, but suggestive of one)
mi wile tawa insa ni : mi ken lape kepeken ala kalama.
I want to go in where I can sleep without noise.
-----
jan Mato li mi li jan ala pi sona toki. mi kama sona e toki ala.
I'm a fake linguist who studies fake languages.