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Re: Chinese calendar? (tenpo sike pi jan Sonko)

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:11 pm
by janTe
For "hunting animal", I like "soweli pi wile alasa" and "soweli pi lukin alasa". I think they both work well.

For "hunted animal", I think "soweli pi kama moku" is still ambiguous. It could mean "animal that starts to eat". Maybe "soweli pi kama lon moku"?

the modifier/modified relation is very ambiguous


I think the difficulty is in showing that the head noun is the modified thing. Maybe the word "ante" could be used? As a modifier, perhaps it could mean "changed". soweli ante alasa? And "worked iron" could be "kiwen ante pali"?

Maybe you could say "lupa ante sewi" (raised board) as opposed to just "lupa sewi" (high board)?

I don't know.

Re: Chinese calendar? (tenpo sike pi jan Sonko)

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:39 pm
by janMato
janTe wrote:For "hunted animal", I think "soweli pi kama moku" is still ambiguous. It could mean "animal that starts to eat".


"animal that starts to eat" ~ soweli pi open moku, which is closer to "animal of a foody beginning." (maybe appetizer)

If you were following my crazy idea for "pu", then pu would have worked. pi chains tend to be noun-like things and adjective-like things. No so much verb or clause-like things.

mi lukin e ni. soweli li open moku e moku pi tempo suno sin. I saw the animal that starts to eat breakfast.
mi lukin e soweli pi open moku. I saw the animal of appetizers (food that opens a meal)
mi lukin e soweli pi kama moku. I saw the animal of becoming food, animal which is convertible to food.

Maybe "soweli pi kama lon moku"?

I pretty sure you had in mind lon in the sense of a verb here and lon here has to be interpreted in the sense of a modifier. Animal of nutritious, real conversion.

soweli ante alasa?

I see "hunt(er)'s other animal".

And "worked iron" could be "kiwen ante pali"?

I would guess "kiwen suno pi pali jan" metal of human labor, worked iron.
kiwen ante pali looks like work(er)'s other stone.

Maybe you could say "supa ante sewi" (raised board) as opposed to just "supa sewi" (high board)?

jan Kipo would be loathe to agree with me, but I think that all of the examples you've hit upon are related to the issue I was talking about when I said "pu" should be used like "pi", except to introduce a verb phrase.

Each pi introduces a noun phrase-- the pi is some generic relationship between the head noun and the other *noun*. When the salient characteristic of the head noun has to do with an action, then we are stuck with multi-sentence circumlocutions.

What you are sort of suggesting is that kama and ante and lon can act as verbs when in modifier positions, which would be a sort of verb phrase embedded into noun phrases. Anyhow, its a change radical enough that it would have to come from jan Sonja or such.

Re: Chinese calendar? (tenpo sike pi jan Sonko)

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:08 am
by jan Josan
I just went back to my notes to find your potential marker for date: "jan pi olin ken". Unfortunately it doesn't seem to help here with the dual food/eat problem that is so persistent with 'moku'. "soweli pi moku ken" seems even worse than "soweli moku" and "soweli pi kama moku ken" or "soweli pi ken kama moku" looks to me like the same kind of verb-as-modifier you just described.

But on the plus side, if we now have 'soweli mani' for Ox, that frees up 'soweli wawa' for tiger.