nasin Asatu

Mind and thought: Wisdom, mental health, cognition, self-talk, consciousness, philosophy, psychology, optimizing your thinking, productivity hacks
Menso kaj penso: Saĝaĵoj, psiĥa sano, kogno, memparolado, psiĥa stato, filozofio, psikologio, rearanĝi sian pensadon, plibonigi sian produktokapablon
Post Reply
janMato
Posts: 1545
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:21 pm
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Contact:

nasin Asatu

Post by janMato »

nasin Asatu li nasin majuna (pi tenpo sike mute) pi ma Islan en ma Elopa.

jan pi nasin Asatu li kepeken e toki Islan. tan ni la mi wile sona e nasin ni.

nasin Asatu li jo e jan sewi mute. mi pilin e ni: jan sewi li lon ala. taso jan ken pilin e ijo kon kepeken nasin jan. **

jan pi nasin Asatu li pilin e ni: sitelen pi kalama lili li jo e wawa kon. ni li musi tan ni: jan pi toki pona li pilin e ni: kon li wawa kon. taso sona toki li pona mute tawa jan pi toki pona!

kipisi pi jan pi nasin Asatu li pana e kon pona tawa mama ale ona. kipisi pi jan ni li pana e ike tawa jan lili pi mama majuna (pi tenpo sike mute) mute ona tan meli anu mije ante. mi la ni li musi kin. jan ale li jan lili pi mama meli majuna en mama mije tan ma Apika.

jan pi nasin Asatu li pali e nasin sin tan lipu sitelen majuna (pi tenpo sike mute). taso sitelen li lili li kipisi taso pi nasin majuna ale. jan li wile pali e ijo pi nasin sin. taso jan ala li pilin e ijo pi nasin sin li lon li pona li sama nasin majuna. ni li sama ma pi toki sin. mute la toki li pini ala. jan li wile pini e toki ni. taso jan ale li ken ala kama tawa pilin sama.


The way of Asatru is the old religion of Iceland and Europe.

Asatru is interesting to me because they use the Icelandic language.

I think that god(s) don't exist, but one can understand abstractions (things you can't see), using personification. (My sentence doesn't really say 'abstraction' or 'personification', I'm not sure how to express either.)

Asatruar think that letters are magic. This is interesting because toki ponan's think that air is magic. This is despite that toki ponans are linguistics enthusiasts.

Some of the Asatruar worship their ancestors. Some of those do not like their cousins, [i.e. people you are related to, but via an ancestor from several thousand years ago. Toki pona does a poor job of expressing relationships between nodes on a rooted, directed graph.] I think is this funny because we are all the children of an ancient mother and father from Africa.

The Atruar are reconstructing a religion from old documents. But the writings are scant, only a part of all the old customs. People want to create new customs. But not everyone believes these new customs are true, good or like the old ways. This is like the world of conlangs, where a language is unfinished, some want to finish it, but people can't come to an agreement.
Last edited by janMato on Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:59 am, edited 3 times in total.
jan-ante
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:05 pm

Re: nasin Asatu

Post by jan-ante »

this is not understandable withoun english translation
janKipo
Posts: 3064
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: nasin Asatu

Post by janKipo »

janMato wrote:nasin Asatu li nasin [majuna] pi ma Islan en ma Elopa.This ain't Eo, 'pi sin ala' or 'pi tenpo sike mute'

jan pi nasin Asatu li kepeken e toki Islan. mi wile sona e nasin ni tan ni. Probably 'tan ni la mi wile..'. I take it that the fact it is in Icelandic is your reason for wanting to learn about it.

nasin Asatu li jo e jan sewi mute. mi pilin e ni: jan sewi li lon ala. taso jan LI ken pilin e ijo kon kepeken nasin jan. **

jan pi nasin Asatu li pilin e ni: sitelen pi kalama lili li jo e kon wawa. ni li musi tan ni: jan pi toki pona li pilin e ni: kon li kon wawa. taso toki sona li pona mute tawa jan pi toki pona!More than a tad obscure. Looking at the trat below, I have trouble seeing 'kon wawa' as "magic", though 'wawa kon' might work. The last sentence doesn't read like the trat at all: "Tokiponist like maxims" But it would be nice to find a way of saying "despite" (a problem somewhere else)

kipisi pi jan pi nasin Asatu li pana e kon pona tawa mama ale ona. kipisi pi jan ni li pana e ike tawa jan lili pi mama [majuna] mute ona tan meli anu mije ante. mi la ni li musi kin. jan ale li jan lili pi mama meli majuna en mama mije tan ma Apika. I would have said 'mama ona ale' but I can't think of a good reason other than English usage and the oddity of chopping his out of the pile of all ancestors. Next sentence obscure or, rather, needs some more information to identify these many ancestors and the other men and women. You're right about the directed graph problem; perhaps tp like other primitive languages isn't concerned with dead ancestors at all. "cousins' is a nice problem.

jan pi nasin Asatu li pali e nasin sin tan lipu sitelen majuna. taso sitelen li lili li kipisi taso pi nasin [majuna] ale. jan li wile pali e ijo pi nasin sin. taso jan ala li pilin e ni: ijo pi nasin sin li lon li pona li sama nasin [majuna]. ni li sama ma pi toki sin. mute la toki li pini ala. jan li wile pini e toki ni. taso jan ale li ken ala kama tawa pilin sama.

'toki tomo' for conlangs, I think
janMato
Posts: 1545
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:21 pm
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Contact:

Re: nasin Asatu

Post by janMato »

d'oh! Reversed a few nouns and modifiers. English errors probably.

There is a computer programming language called Xpath, which allows software developers to specify nodes on a graph relative to another node using parent/sibling, etc. notation. It is massively hard to use. I see clearly why most languages deal with this lexically rather than building words out of the step by step navigations necessary to specify. Even in English, when we use the step by step method of kinship terms I quickly get lost. (my mothers mothers sisters daughters husbands fathers inlaws sons son.) Since tp can't resort to new words, and building words is unworkable-- this looks like an area where an opaque compound word would be better. e.g. cousin = jan lili pi mama pali or uncle = jan suli pi kulupu tu or some otherphrase with suggestive but essentially arbitrary components.

This seemed like a good place to use/abuse the archaic words, so I did.

sin ala doesn't intesify as well as something without "not"
jan li sin. The man is new.
jan li sin ala. He's not new.
jan li sin ala mute.
He's very not, new (i.e. As for the quality of newness, he's quite the opposite).
He's not very new (i.e. he's new, but not the best exemplar)

This is a gripe not so much about the phrase "pi tenpo sike mute" as about how hard it is to convey scales (recent, short time ago, long time ago, ancient times, etc)
jan li jan pi tenpo sike mute. He's a man of many years/many unspecified periods of time/2 or more years.
jan li jan pi tenpo sike mute mute. He really old/a many of 2 or more time periods/many more than 2 time periods/2 or more ages.
janMato
Posts: 1545
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:21 pm
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Contact:

Re: nasin Asatu

Post by janMato »

janKipo wrote:
janMato wrote:ni li sama ma pi toki sin. mute la toki li pini ala. jan li wile pini e toki ni. taso jan ale li ken ala kama tawa pilin sama.[/color]
'toki tomo' for conlangs, I think
Uh, where and why do I need "toki tomo"? Chat room? I had in mind "land of the new languages"
janKipo
Posts: 3064
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: nasin Asatu

Post by janKipo »

"This is like the world of conlangs, where a language is unfinished, some want to finish it, but people can't come to an agreement."
'ni li sama ma pi toki sin. mute la toki li pini ala. jan li wile pini e toki ni. taso jan ale li ken ala kama tawa pilin sama.'
"new languages" doesn't make a lot of sense there unless they are conlangs, 'toki tomo'. Chat room is (inter alia) 'tomo toki'

Yeah. It's hard for an AN speaker to do NA consistently, especially when either way makes sorta the sense you wanted.

'jan sama' seems to cover not only sibs but cousins and indeed contemporaries generally, depending on context, of course. Otherwise, genealogy is a hopeless mess in tp.

'maljuna' is not really an archaic word, is it? [checks] Damn! It is! Still a borrowing from Eo. And better than what we have in at least one sense: it is easier to intensify, as you note ( 'sin ala mute' has to be "very unnew'; "not very new" would be 'sin mute ala' and doesn't mean anything about exemplars -- at least overtly).

And yes, it would be nice to have some tensors on our vectors (help with genealogy, too), to distinguish between a man who is seventy and a document that is seven hundred, say.
Post Reply