nasin pona

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janKipo
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Re: nasin pona

Postby janKipo » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:28 pm

Well, one of the reasons for doublespeak, or whatever you want to call it, is that single speak offends people, gets them angry and destroys peace. This is an unfortunate state of affairs and one that should eventually be done away with, but, in the meantime, we try to be as peaceable as possible on this site and not ruffle ethnic or religious or .... feathers. The facts baldly stated should be just accepted and our responses to them directed in constructive ways. But there does remain the problem of which story is "the facts" (see previous note).

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Re: nasin pona

Postby janKipo » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:48 pm

I lose track of which thread I am on. Anyhow, not that I see it, you don't need 'pi' with 'nanpa' or numbers; these set up automatic right grouping.
What does 'jan pi (ma?) Ukawina pi suno weka' mean "Ukrainian people of the distant sun"?

jan-ante
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Re: nasin pona

Postby jan-ante » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:57 pm

janKipo wrote:I lose track of which thread I am on. Anyhow, not that I see it, you don't need 'pi' with 'nanpa' or numbers; these set up automatic right grouping.
before i used brackets: x (pi) nanpa wan, because 2 oppinions are possible. but as the discussion went on i dropped them down
What does 'jan pi (ma?) Ukawina pi suno weka' mean "Ukrainian people of the distant sun"?
in a way yes: people of western ukraine (where the photo was taken. people of eastern ukraine was not that sympathetic to hitler

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jan Ote
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Re: nasin pona

Postby jan Ote » Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:10 pm

jan-ante wrote:
tenpo pini la ona mute li pali e ijo tawa jan Hitler tan ni: ona mute li wile ala e ike tan jan Nazi.
nasin ni li ike tawa mi. o pilin e ni: jan ale li tawa nasin Seki la lawa ike li kama jo e ma ale

jan li utala kepeken ilo utala la jan ni li kama moli tan ilo utala
nasin ni li pona ala pona?
pona. pona ala.

jan ali li pona ala pona?
jan ali li pona la jan lawa ike li lon ala. ona li ken ala lon.
taso jan ike li lon kin la nasin pi jan pona li ken ala ken lawa e ma ali?

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Re: nasin pona

Postby janKipo » Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:17 pm

I'm not the final word on this, but people have been dropping 'pi' with 'nanpa' and numbers for at least six years and it does make sense.
The words for "west" and "east" are a big tp problem. 'weka suno' is one (along with 'pini suno' and 'anpa suno' and the reverse orders in each case). Some day we will settle down on this issue.

The eternal liberal paradox: can nice people do bad things to not so nice people to keep them from doing bad things to nice people? (The one about overpopulation is worse).

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Re: nasin pona

Postby jan lipakek » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:24 pm

jan ali li pona la jan lawa ike li lon ala. ona li ken ala lon.

jan ote li jo e pilin pona.

jan-Ante o. mi pana e pona tawa sina tan ni: sina pali pona e sitelen mi. (Thanks for the corrections!)
ona mute li jo e tan lukin taso li pali e ijo.
they have cause of looking only and do the thing?


mi sitelen e toki ante kepeken toki Inli nanpa tu - They do it only for symbolic reasons (to keep allies happy etc.)

jan-Ante o.
jan-ante wrote:
tenpo pini la ona mute li pali e ijo tawa jan Hitler tan ni: ona mute li wile ala e ike tan jan Nazi.
nasin ni li ike tawa mi. o pilin e ni: jan ale li tawa nasin Seki la lawa ike li kama jo e ma ale


mi pana e pana lukin (example) tawa sina. jan Dalai Lama en ma Tibet li utala ala. tan ni la ona mute li jo ala e ma. taso mi pilin e ni: lon sama jan Dalai Lama li pona mute tawa mi. tenpo kama la jan ante li ken lukin e jan Dalai Lama li pilin pona sama ona. kama la jan ali li ken lon sama ona.

mi pilin e ni: tenpo mute anu tenpo ali la utala li lawa tawa utala mute.

poka la mi wile toki taso pi nasin lawa Seki. mi wile ala toki pi nasin kulupu lawa Seki.

you want to talk about Czech politics but not Czech govt? also, mind the position of taso


I wanted to talk aout the Czech way of thinking rather than the government's.

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Re: nasin pona

Postby jan-ante » Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:10 pm

jan Ote wrote: jan li utala kepeken ilo utala la jan ni li kama moli tan ilo utala

jan li ken kepeken e ilo la ilo li pana ala e ike tawa ona.

jan ali li pona ala pona?

jan pali li pona. jan mani li ike. jan Posuka li utala e jan Losi/Tosi/Seki la ni li ike. jan pail li utala e jan mani la ni li pona

mi o utala e nasin mani,
o kama jo e pona mi.
mi kepeken e wawa seli
tawa jan lawa ike kin

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jan Ote
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Re: nasin pona

Postby jan Ote » Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:28 am

jan-ante wrote:btw, you used double la construction in the quote above A la B la C: A=>(B=>C). is this a generall way preferrable for you?
A mistake.

jan-ante wrote:
jan Ote wrote: jan li utala kepeken ilo utala la jan ni li kama moli tan ilo utala
jan li ken kepeken e ilo la ilo li pana ala e ike tawa ona.
pona. taso toki ni li tan lipu Pipija li sona e ni: jan wan li utala e jan kepeken palisa utala la jan ante li moli e jan utala ni kepeken palisa utala. jan pi toki pona li ken toki e sona ni kepeken nimi ni: "jan li utala la jan li kama moli tan utala".
toki mi li toki tan lipu Pipija. tenpo suno pini la mi kepeken e nimi 'ilo utala'. ona li pona lili. nimi 'ilo palisa utala' anu nimi 'palisa utala' li pona mute:
jan li utala kepeken ilo palisa utala la jan ni li kama moli tan ilo palisa utala.

jan-ante wrote:jan pali li pona. jan mani li ike. [...]. jan pail li utala e jan mani la ni li pona
tenpo suli pini la mi pilin sama sina. taso tenpo ni la mi pilin ante. pilin mi li ante tan ni: mi lon poka pi jan pali mute li toki tawa jan pali mute li kute e ona. mi toki tawa jan mani. mi sona e ni: jan li jo e mani tan seme? tenpo mute la jan mani li jo e mani tan pali mute ona. tenpo mute la ona li jo e mani tan pali pi mama ona. taso jan pali mute li pilin sama jan Paliwan:

jan Paliwan li pali lili li kama jo e mani lili tan pali ona. ona li pana e mani li musi. ona li pilin e ni: "ni li pona tawa mi. mi wile ala pali mute". jan Palitu li pali mute li kama jo e mani mute tan pali ona li awen e mani ona. tenpo ali la ona li pali mute li musi lili li lape lili. ona li pilin e ni: "ni li pona tawa mi. tenpo kama la mi ken jo e ijo pona mute". tenpo li kama. jan Palitu li jo e mani mute li pana e ona li kama jo e tomo tu. tomo wan li tomo ona. tomo ante li tomo pi jan lili ona. jan Palitu li pilin pona mute. taso jan Paliwan li lukin li pilin ike: "pakala! jan Palitu li jo e tomo tu. ona li jan mani. mi jan pali li jo ala e tomo li jo e mani lili! ni li ike. mi wile jo e tomo wan pi jan Palitu". ona li toki tawa jan Palitu. taso jan Palitu li toki e ni: "sina nasa! o pali! o awen e mani sina! nasin ni la sina ken jo e tomo". jan Paliwan li pilin ike tawa jan Palitu. ona li pilin e ni: "tenpo ni la ona li jo e tomo. tenpo suli seme li kama la mi ken jo e tomo? tenpo suli mute. pali mute? tenpo suli mute? mi wile ala!". tan ni la ona li wile utala e jan Palitu li kama jo e tomo ona.

BTW:
taso, o pilin pona tan ni: jan li toki e ni:
janP wrote:ken la jan ni li lon: ona li suli ala la ona li wile ala ante e lawa li wile ala utala e lawa. taso jan sama ni li kama suli la ona li kama jan ike jaki. *
(ni li lon kin: ona li kepeken e nimi jaki).

* - it was one sentence, difficult to translate to toki pona, because of "who ... in his youth, then in his old age...".
Last edited by jan Ote on Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

janKipo
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Re: nasin pona

Postby janKipo » Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:51 am

'toki tawa jan pali mute'?
'mama unpa' I don't think 'unpa' is meant to carry the pejorative sense that its English version has and similarly with its compounds. Thus this becomes an obscure phrase: his parents surely had sex from time time (witness him), but that doesn't make them evil or even slightly off the normal charts. Also, along the same line, it isn't clear that insults directed at a person's family are reasonable ways to attack that person: 'jan pi ike mute' ought to be enough, or maybe 'jan jaki' if your feeling about him is more visceral.

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jan Ote
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Re: nasin pona

Postby jan Ote » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:46 am

janKipo wrote:'toki tawa jan pali mute'?
Yes.
janKipo wrote:'mama unpa' I don't think 'unpa' is meant to carry the pejorative sense that its English version has and similarly with its compounds.
I know. But 'jan pakala' or similar makes even less sense. So I used a common IE calque. mi pakala.
'jan jaki' would be much better.
Edited.


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