nasin pona
Re: nasin pona
'pakala' is offered as the tp swearword, but even it does not have -- outside its interjective use -- all the echos that most English swear words have. This is partly, of course, because there is not yet a culture in which such such connotations can arise naturally. At its strongest, 'pakala' might come down to "damned" (i.e., inevitably or deservedly destroyed). But 'jaki' is exactly the word for impure things, i.e., socially unacceptable at a deep psychological level. In a sense, 'jaki!' is even stronger than 'pakala' since it has an irrational, limbic force behind it.
Re: nasin pona
taso ni li kama ala esona ante. o kk e palisa utala sina lon nasin pona la sina li anpa e jan ike sinajan Ote wrote: jan li utala kepeken ilo palisa utala la jan ni li kama moli tan ilo palisa utala.
tenpo pini la jan lawa Losi li toki e toki sama tawa jan Losi mute. ona li nasa e kulupu jan Losi. tenpo ni la jan Losi mute li sona e ni: toki ni li nasa.mi toki tawa jan mani. mi sona e ni: jan li jo e mani tan seme? tenpo mute la jan mani li jo e mani tan pali mute ona. tenpo mute la ona li jo e mani tan pali pi mama ona.
jan mani li jo e mani tan seme? ken la ona li jo e mani tan pali anu seme? ala! ona li jo e mani tan mani kin. ni li nasa: mani li mama e mani sin. ona li mama e mani kin. jan li kepeken e mani sin lon nasin ni: ona li kama jo e tomo pi jan ante e tomo pali ona e ma pi kasi moku. ona kin li jan mani. nasin ona li nasin mani. ona li ike suli.
dont understand this point* - it was one sentence, difficult to translate to toki pona, because of "who ... in his youth, then in his old age...".
Re: nasin pona
I'll stay out of the politics here, except to note that both sides seem a bit idealized to me.
But on tp. 'kepeken lon nasin' just feels wrong (even though it is good English); I suspect that 'tawa' is better, but I am not sure why.
Further back: there is nothing wrong with double 'la'; 'la' does so many things it is bound occasionally to have to do both (and we have no "and" for sentences).
jan li sin la ona li suli ala li wile ala ante e lawa li wile ala utala e lawa. jan ni li suli la ona li kama jan jaki. We need a way to distinguish "if" from "when".
But on tp. 'kepeken lon nasin' just feels wrong (even though it is good English); I suspect that 'tawa' is better, but I am not sure why.
Further back: there is nothing wrong with double 'la'; 'la' does so many things it is bound occasionally to have to do both (and we have no "and" for sentences).
jan li sin la ona li suli ala li wile ala ante e lawa li wile ala utala e lawa. jan ni li suli la ona li kama jan jaki. We need a way to distinguish "if" from "when".
Re: nasin pona
jan wan li sama pipi musi. jan ante li sama pipi pali. ni li lon ala lon? ni li lon. mi lukin e ni kepeken oko mi kin! tenpo suli pini la mi en jan Male li kama sona lon tomo sona. kulupu mama mi li jo e mani lili. kulupu mama pi jan Male li jo e mani lili. taso jan Male li wile kama sona li wile pali pona. ona li sona pali li sona mani li pali mute kin. tenpo li kama. tenpo suno ali la ona li pali mute li lape lili. ona li awen e mani ona. tenpo suno ni la ona li jo e tomo esun mute lon ma tomo mi. ona li jo e tomo esun mute lon ma tomo ante. ona li jo e tomo pona suli e tomo tawa pona li jo e mani mute. mi sona e tan pi mani ona: jan Male li kama sona mute li pilin sona mute li pali mute. taso ni li lon: tenpo suli pini la jan mute li tawa poka mi tawa tomo sona. tenpo ni la ona li jo ala e mani mute sama mani pi jan Male. tan seme? wile ona li sama ala wile pi jan Male. sona ona li sama ala sona pi jan Male. pali ona li sama ala pali pi jan Male. jan Male li jan mani anu jan seme? jan mani. ona li jan mani kin. ona li ike ala ike? sina pilin ona li ike la ona li ike tan seme?jan-ante wrote:jan mani li jo e mani tan seme? ken la ona li jo e mani tan pali anu seme? ala!
mi lukin e ni kepeken oko mi kin.
The original was one sentence, not three: "who hasn't been a rebel in his youth, will be a ...erm... bad guy in his old age".jan-ante wrote:dont understand this point* - it was one sentence, difficult to translate to toki pona, because of "who ... in his youth, then in his old age...".
Last edited by jan Ote on Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:39 am, edited 6 times in total.
Re: nasin pona
I live too long to be an idealist any morejanKipo wrote:except to note that both sides seem a bit idealized to me.
"mute" =/= "ali".jan Ote wrote:tenpo mute la jan mani li jo e mani tan pali mute ona. [...] taso jan pali mute li pilin sama jan Paliwan
In this very sentence the more serious problem is with "young" and "old" -- "suli ala" or "suli" are too ambigous.janKipo wrote:jan li sin la ona li suli ala li wile ala ante e lawa li wile ala utala e lawa. jan ni li suli la ona li kama jan jaki. We need a way to distinguish "if" from "when".
Re: nasin pona
I don't suppose 'sin' helps much.
OK, stereotyped.
OK, stereotyped.
Re: nasin pona
Maybe. No one is a good judge in his own cause.janKipo wrote:OK, stereotyped.
As jan-ante said:
we have a good reason to practise thinking and writing in toki pona. I believe that this discussion already showed that often the problem with a common view is not in a language we use.jan-ante wrote:i am still curious, how some hot discussion could take place in tp, and will the (promissed) absence of newspeak/doublespeak change anything?
Last edited by jan Ote on Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: nasin pona
jan-ante o!
tenpo suli la mi sona ala li toki ala e ni: sina jan pi nimi namako 'jan ante' anu jan pi nimi Losi "Andrei"?
tenpo suli la mi sona ala li toki ala e ni: sina jan pi nimi namako 'jan ante' anu jan pi nimi Losi "Andrei"?
Re: nasin pona
kin la nimi seme li nimi lon monsi pi nimi 'Ote'?
Re: nasin pona
If I understand you properly, then the answer is: jan Ote = Wojtek [voitek].janKipo wrote:kin la nimi seme li nimi lon monsi pi nimi 'Ote'?
I'm curious: is 'jan-ante' just a login-name meaning "other man" or is it "jan Ante" (Andrei or whatever jan-ante wants to stand behind this name)?