sitelen musi lili pi Langston Hughes

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Sasin
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sitelen musi lili pi Langston Hughes

Postby Sasin » Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:38 am

kulupu Alen

wile wawa li kama ala lon la seme?
ona li sama ala sama ni: telo insa pi kili suwi lili li tawa weka tan seli suno?
ona li sama ala sama ni: selo jan pakala li kama jaki?
ona li sama ala sama ni: wan pi soweli moli li ike tawa nena lawa jan?
ona li sama ala sama ni: telo suwi li kama kiwen?
ona li sama ala sama ni: ijo suli li kama anpa?
seli wawa mute tan insa li pali e ike e pakala e moli anu seme?


jan Asuwa (Sasin) li pali e sitelen ni.
sina pona e sitelen mi anu seme?
pona!
Last edited by Sasin on Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ijo li mute li wan

janKipo
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Re: sitelen musi lili pi Langston Hughes

Postby janKipo » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:38 pm

Well, I don't know the poem, so some of this is guesswork. And, of course, I son't do [poetry.
'Alem' (has to be 'Alen' to be tp) = Harlem? Is 'kulupu' specific "gang, crowd, assembly"? Is this the title?
"What if a strong desire does not start?" (not sure this is tpish, but ...)
"Is it like when the juice of a sweet fruit goes away? (specific fruit?)
"Is it like when an injured man decays"?
"Is it like when a piece of a dead animal is bad to a mountain?" ?????
"Is it like when honey hardens?"
"Is it like when a big thing come down?"
prob 'seli pi wawa mute, pi tan insa'
"Does a very hot fire from inside make evil and destruction and death?"
Aside from the problems apparent in the translation and one emendation, this is good, grammatically. (I don't do [poetry.)

(subscription much clearer.)

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Sasin
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Location: ma Mewika

Re: sitelen musi lili pi Langston Hughes

Postby Sasin » Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:26 pm

janKipo wrote:Well, I don't know the poem, so some of this is guesswork. And, of course, I son't do [poetry.
'Alem' (has to be 'Alen' to be tp) = Harlem? Is 'kulupu' specific "gang, crowd, assembly"? Is this the title?
"What if a strong desire does not start?" (not sure this is tpish, but ...)
"Is it like when the juice of a sweet fruit goes away? (specific fruit?)
"Is it like when an injured man decays"?
"Is it like when a piece of a dead animal is bad to a mountain?" ?????
"Is it like when honey hardens?"
"Is it like when a big thing come down?"
prob 'seli pi wawa mute, pi tan insa'
"Does a very hot fire from inside make evil and destruction and death?"
Aside from the problems apparent in the translation and one emendation, this is good, grammatically. (I don't do [poetry.)

(subscription much clearer.)


jan Kipo o, pona!
vi estas tre helpema al mi.
jen la originala poemo: http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/175884
iujn detalojn mi forlasis. mi klopodis traduki plej gravan figuradon.
having better grammar is a good step! ( :
i'm trying to pay better attention to the transitive/intransitive nature of each word.
ijo li mute li wan

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Sasin
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Location: ma Mewika

Re: sitelen musi lili pi Langston Hughes

Postby Sasin » Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:36 pm

sitelen mi li ante pona.
ijo li mute li wan

jan_Lope
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Re: sitelen musi lili pi Langston Hughes

Postby jan_Lope » Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:26 am

Sasin wrote:kulupu Alen

wile wawa li kama ala lon la seme?
ona li sama ala sama ni: telo insa pi kili suwi lili li tawa weka tan seli suno?
ona li sama ala sama ni: selo jan pakala li kama jaki?
ona li sama ala sama ni: wan pi soweli moli li ike tawa nena lawa jan?
ona li sama ala sama ni: telo suwi li kama kiwen?
ona li sama ala sama ni: ijo suli li kama anpa?
seli wawa mute tan insa li pali e ike e pakala e moli anu seme?


jan Asuwa (Sasin) li pali e sitelen ni.
sina pona e sitelen mi anu seme?
pona!


jan Sasin o, toki!

The grammar of your question "ona li sama ala sama ni ...?" is wrong. "sama" is used here as a verb, because yes/no-questions with "ala" need a verb before and the same verb after "ala". Please see
http://rowa.giso.de/languages/toki-pona ... 0000000000
"sama" is a transitive verb. You have to use an "e" after "sama":
"ona li sama ala sama e ni ...?" (Does it makes this equal or not?)

But I think this is not what you mean. If you would like to say something like "Is this the same as..?" You can't use a question with "ala" because there is no word for "be" in Toki Pona ("ona [be] ala [be] ...? "). You have to use it in this way:

"ona li sama ni anu seme ...?"

Please see here:
http://rowa.giso.de/languages/toki-pona ... 0000000000

BTW: A lot of people make this mistake.
pona!
jan Lope
https://jan-lope.github.io
(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

On my foe list are the sockpuppets janKipo and janSilipu because of permanent, rude spamming.

janKipo
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Re: sitelen musi lili pi Langston Hughes

Postby janKipo » Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:31 am

Ah, prescriptivism! Of course, you can use 'sama' as a verb in an 'x ala x' question construction and, of course, it is still a preposition and so do not take 'e' ('sama 'e' means "to make equal/similar, to equate", not what you meant). So, that mistake does not occur. (Interestingly, Lope is quite willing to call whatever comes after a 'pi' a noun, but not to call whatever comes after a 'li' a verb.)
apparently 'ma tomo Alen'.

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Sasin
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Location: ma Mewika

Re: sitelen musi lili pi Langston Hughes

Postby Sasin » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:52 pm

janKipo wrote:apparently 'ma tomo Alen'.


i thought about using ma or tomo here, but i think kulupu is more apt in the sense that Harlem is a community; not a municipality, but a neighborhood. also because kulupu is people, and the poem, imo, is equating dreams with people. we are dreams, reveries.
mi wile.
ijo li mute li wan

janKipo
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Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: sitelen musi lili pi Langston Hughes

Postby janKipo » Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:01 pm

Nice interpretive touch. pona.


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