insa nasin (Carlos Drummond de Andrade)

[jan Alanto]

insa nasin

insa nasin la kiwen li lon
kiwen li lon insa nasin
kiwen li lon
insa nasin la kiwen li lon

mi ken ala weka pi tan lawa e kama ni
pi lon lon pi selo insa oko mi pi pali mute
mi ken ala weka pi tan lawa e ni: insa nasin la
kiwen li lon
kiwen li lon insa nasin
insa nasin la kiwen li lon.

[jan_Lope]

jan Alanto o, toki.


insa nasin

insa nasin la kiwen li lon.
kiwen li lon insa nasin.
kiwen li lon.
insa nasin la kiwen li lon.
mi ken ala weka (pi tan lawa) e kama ni pi lon lon pi selo insa oko mi pi pali mute.
mi ken ala weka e ni: insa nasin la kiwen li lon.
kiwen li lon insa nasin.
insa nasin la kiwen li lon.

---

You forgot the punctuation marks.

mi ken ala weka (pi tan lawa) e ...

This is a wrong pi phrase. You can't use pi after a verb.
I recommend to accept to common grammar rules. Otherwise nobody can understand what you mean.

Please see the lessons:
The official Toki Pona book by Sonja (2014) page 44:
"The particle pi is used to divide a second noun group that describes the first noun group."
Pijes lessons:
"pi separates a noun from another noun that has an adjective."
http://tokipona.net/tp/janpije/okamasona11.php
Russian Toki Pona lessons (Last modified: 18:09, 18 ноября 2015‎)
https://ru.wikibooks.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0 ... D%D0%B0/pi
Проблема решена. То есть pi выполняет функцию разделителя между существительным и другим существительным, у которого имеются прилагательные.

mi ken ala weka e kama ni pi lon lon pi selo insa oko mi pi pali mute.

Three pi phrases for "kama ni" is not a good Toki Pona style in my opinion.

"this event
- of existing existence
- of retina
- of a lot of work"
Or in other words:
"This event of existing existence and retina and a lot of work" - What does it mean?

[janKipo]

Since the rules books cited don't adhere to their own rules for more than a page (pu has 'tenpo pi suli mute' on page 45) and they, in fact, say nothing about 'pi' with verbs (nor say that 'pi' is only to be used in the way described), you can, I think safely ignore the prohibitions. On the other hand, the long string of 'pi's is clunky style and it would be nice to get rid of some of them. I don't see how to do it except by serious rearranging the pieces, which is just not my thing. Lope's particular criticism is irrelevant, however, since he doesn't believe that a 'pi' phrase can occur within a 'pi' phrase and so takes the three (nested) 'pi' phrases here as parallel, each applying to 'ni', rather than 'pi pali mute' applying to 'selo insa oko', and all that attached by 'pi' to
the 'lon' of 'lon lon' (not too pretty itself), all of which is finally attached to 'ni' (Lope doesn't believe 'pi' can be used to attach PPs either). All I can suggest is going back to the simple sentences and seeing if there is another way to put them together into this idea complex.

[jan Alanto]

Oh, I just wanted to preserve many aspects of the original, which include rather complex vocabulary at the mentioned sentence and no punctuation for improved ambiguity in some sentences. The author is part of a literary movement called Modernism which preaches, among other things, poetry has no obligation to follow annoying grammatical rules. Art is the expression of a feeling. We shouldn't restrict our feelings. I'm sorry but I won't change my work of art. (Kipo has advised me about that conservativism so I just published it here to see the world burn )

[jan_Lope]

Oh, I just wanted to preserve many aspects of the original, which include rather complex vocabulary at the mentioned sentence and no punctuation for improved ambiguity in some sentences. The author is part of a literary movement called Modernism which preaches, among other things, poetry has no obligation to follow annoying grammatical rules. Art is the expression of a feeling. We shouldn't restrict our feelings. I'm sorry but I won't change my work of art. (Kipo has advised me about that conservativism so I just published it here to see the world burn )

jan Alanto o, toki!

Keep in mind Toki Pona is the language of simplicity. This is not the aim of Toki Pona to say complex things. Keep it simple, bring it to the point. I can't see this in your poem.

Violations of grammar are really not good for understanding. And pi after a verb is a stupid grammar error.

Do you like texts with grammar mistakes?

[janKipo]

No, but it is not clear that any of these are. One case is uncomfortably complex, but breaking it down seems to me to ruin the intention of the poet (original and translator) and also turns out to be hard to do.

[jan_Lope]

O poor Carlos Drummond de Andrade.