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insa nasin (Carlos Drummond de Andrade) - Toki Pona Forums

insa nasin (Carlos Drummond de Andrade)

Creativity: Poetry, music, comics, etc.
Kreado: Poezio, muziko, bildrakontoj, ktp.
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jan Alanto
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insa nasin (Carlos Drummond de Andrade)

Postby jan Alanto » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:02 pm

insa nasin

insa nasin la kiwen li lon
kiwen li lon insa nasin
kiwen li lon
insa nasin la kiwen li lon

mi ken ala weka pi tan lawa e kama ni
pi lon lon pi selo insa oko mi pi pali mute
mi ken ala weka pi tan lawa e ni: insa nasin la
kiwen li lon
kiwen li lon insa nasin
insa nasin la kiwen li lon.

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jan_Lope
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Re: insa nasin (Carlos Drummond de Andrade)

Postby jan_Lope » Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:00 am

Last edited by jan_Lope on Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
pona!
jan Lope
https://jan-lope.github.io
(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

On my foe list are the sockpuppets janKipo and janSilipu because of permanent spamming.

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Re: insa nasin (Carlos Drummond de Andrade)

Postby janKipo » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:33 pm

Since the rules books cited don't adhere to their own rules for more than a page (pu has 'tenpo pi suli mute' on page 45) and they, in fact, say nothing about 'pi' with verbs (nor say that 'pi' is only to be used in the way described), you can, I think safely ignore the prohibitions. On the other hand, the long string of 'pi's is clunky style and it would be nice to get rid of some of them. I don't see how to do it except by serious rearranging the pieces, which is just not my thing. Lope's particular criticism is irrelevant, however, since he doesn't believe that a 'pi' phrase can occur within a 'pi' phrase and so takes the three (nested) 'pi' phrases here as parallel, each applying to 'ni', rather than 'pi pali mute' applying to 'selo insa oko', and all that attached by 'pi' to
the 'lon' of 'lon lon' (not too pretty itself), all of which is finally attached to 'ni' (Lope doesn't believe 'pi' can be used to attach PPs either). All I can suggest is going back to the simple sentences and seeing if there is another way to put them together into this idea complex.

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jan Alanto
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Re: insa nasin (Carlos Drummond de Andrade)

Postby jan Alanto » Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:45 pm

Oh, I just wanted to preserve many aspects of the original, which include rather complex vocabulary at the mentioned sentence and no punctuation for improved ambiguity in some sentences. The author is part of a literary movement called Modernism which preaches, among other things, poetry has no obligation to follow annoying grammatical rules. Art is the expression of a feeling. We shouldn't restrict our feelings. I'm sorry but I won't change my work of art. :roll: :lol: (Kipo has advised me about that conservativism so I just published it here to see the world burn :twisted: )

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Re: insa nasin (Carlos Drummond de Andrade)

Postby jan_Lope » Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:11 pm

pona!
jan Lope
https://jan-lope.github.io
(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

On my foe list are the sockpuppets janKipo and janSilipu because of permanent spamming.

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Re: insa nasin (Carlos Drummond de Andrade)

Postby janKipo » Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:26 pm

No, but it is not clear that any of these are. One case is uncomfortably complex, but breaking it down seems to me to ruin the intention of the poet (original and translator) and also turns out to be hard to do.

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Re: insa nasin (Carlos Drummond de Andrade)

Postby jan_Lope » Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:50 am

O poor Carlos Drummond de Andrade. :(
pona!
jan Lope
https://jan-lope.github.io
(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

On my foe list are the sockpuppets janKipo and janSilipu because of permanent spamming.


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