"mi wile moli", a poem written using five different writing systems and inspired by rage

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jan_Pusa
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"mi wile moli", a poem written using five different writing systems and inspired by rage

Postby jan_Pusa » Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:06 am

(2nd edition)
mi wile moli

ミ ヰレ モリ エ シナ
ケペカン イロ ツ
ミ ウタラ エ シナ
ラ テロ ロィェ リ タワ

시나 도기 다와 미:
"시나 모리 단 세메?"
아리 미 리 이게 단시나
시나 리 얀 이게

ми моли е ян пона сина:
акеси ен ян виле унпа
моли она ли пона кин
палиса мийе она ли ту

σινα λυκιν ταωα μι
πιλιν ικε λι νολ οκο σινα
τενπο πινι λα μι λον λυκα σινα
τενπο νι λα αλι σινα λι λον λυκα μι

sin la mi utala e sina
sin la telo loje li tawa
sina li tawa ala li toki ala
tenpo ni la pakala mi li lon ala
Last edited by jan_Pusa on Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
olin jan li ike la ni li pakala mute.
Kung ang mahalin ka ay bawal, ito'y napakasakit.

janKipo
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Re: "mi wile moli", a poem written using four different writing systems and inspired by rage

Postby janKipo » Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:23 pm

Writing in exotic scripts has a certain aesthetic value -- and sometimes a psychological one -- but it sure makes reading hard. Here, for the reading, is a transcription of this rather nice (linguistically) piece.

mi wile moli e sina
kepeken ilo tu
mi utala e sina
la telo loje li weka

sina toki tawa mi:
“sina moli tan seme?”
ali mi li ike tan sina
sina li jan ike.

mi moli e jan pona sina
jan akesi en jan wile unpa
moli ona li pona kin
palisa mije ona li tu

sina lukin tawa mi
pilin ike li lon oka ona
tenpo pini la mi lon luka sina
tenpo ni la ali sina li lon luka mi

sin la mi utala e sina
sin la telo loje li weka
sina li tawa ala li toki ala
tenpo ni la pakala mi li lon ala

I had trouble with a few characters -- typos or characters I could not identify correctly -- but with less than 150 possible words, I think I solved all the puzzles.
In the battle, I don't suppose blood is absent (weka) but rather flows (tawa) or goes away (kama weka). The second line of the third stanza, "the ugly man and the horny man" doesn't fit in grammatically but is supposed to be (I think) appopsitive to "jan pona sina'. I don't know how else to do this, unless it is to use 'sama'. Just sticking it in is going to screw with the grammar big time. 'lukin tawa mi' means, I suppose' either "look in my behalf" or "look toward me", but 'lukin e mi' is adequate for "look at me". is 'oko ona' really just 'oko sina''? If not, who is ona.?

jan_Pusa
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Re: "mi wile moli", a poem written using four different writing systems and inspired by rage

Postby jan_Pusa » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:16 pm

I don't suppose blood is absent (weka) but rather flows (tawa) or goes away (kama weka).

I did consider 'tawa' at first, but it made more sense (to me) for blood to leave (weka).

"the ugly man and the horny man" doesn't fit in grammatically but is supposed to be (I think) appopsitive to "jan pona sina'.

That's supposed to be just 'akesi', alluding to how he "bites". You got "the horny man" right, though (he really was!) Yes, they are appositives.

'lukin tawa mi' means, I suppose' either "look in my behalf" or "look toward me", but 'lukin e mi' is adequate for "look at me".

Look toward me.

is 'oko ona' really just 'oko sina''?

I stand corrected.
olin jan li ike la ni li pakala mute.
Kung ang mahalin ka ay bawal, ito'y napakasakit.

janKipo
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Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: "mi wile moli", a poem written using four different writing systems and inspired by rage

Postby janKipo » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:32 pm

'weka' means "be away", not go away" which would seem to be the point, so 'kama weka'.
Do reptiles have a peculiar bite? As often, metaphors are lost on us ignorants.
I am still not sure about the significant difference between "look toward me" and "look at me", but the grammar is OK.

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jan Pinsen
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Re: "mi wile moli", a poem written using four different writing systems and inspired by rage

Postby jan Pinsen » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:37 pm

But you can change the part of speech of most any Toki Pona word, right? I'd think you could make "weka" into a verb, as well. To be fair, it's only in the classic word list as a transitive verb, but going by general tp principles, I'd expect it to work as an intransitive verb ("to go away") as well in the right context (like here). Just my two cents, and I may well be very wrong.

janKipo
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Re: "mi wile moli", a poem written using four different writing systems and inspired by rage

Postby janKipo » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:33 pm

True enough. 'weka' does indeed function as an intransitive verb, meaning "be absent, away", and as a transitive verb, meaning "cause to be away, discard, rescue," etc. But not directly "go away" (I suppose 'o weka' implies some motion but doesn't strictly refer to it). To be sure, things like 'sewi' (which is a noun, not an adjective, of course, but still....) do come to mean "go topward, up" , apparently by ellipsis from the causative transitive reflexive 'sewi e sama' "causes itself to be above" (with the usual casual adjustments). So, maybe the same could happen with 'weka'. I'm just not sure it has happened yet. And, in the meantime, both 'kama weka' and 'tawa weka' are around and transparent.

jan_Pusa
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Re: "mi wile moli", a poem written using five different writing systems and inspired by rage

Postby jan_Pusa » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:04 am

@janKipo: Not all reptiles, just snakes. In the Philippines, certain animals are used as metaphors to describe people (e.g. pigs [baboy] refer to slobs, turtles [pagong] for slow-moving people, crocodiles [buwaya] for corrupt people [usually government officials, hehe]). Snakes (ahas) refer to traitors, as both "bite" without warning. It's a cultural thing.
olin jan li ike la ni li pakala mute.
Kung ang mahalin ka ay bawal, ito'y napakasakit.

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jan Pinsen
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Re: "mi wile moli", a poem written using five different writing systems and inspired by rage

Postby jan Pinsen » Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:23 am

I see, jan Kipo. Those are interesting and sensible considerations. Thanks!

janKipo
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Re: "mi wile moli", a poem written using five different writing systems and inspired by rage

Postby janKipo » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:45 pm

This illustrates the advice to make you idioms literal rather nicely. While most there may be some animals that have universal metaphorical force, I don't know of any for sure. Pigs tend to be put down but not always for dirt (they aren't dirty, actually, just too laid back to mind human bad sty-keeping) and I wonder if even the negative is true for China and Oceania; turtles are slow but that is sometimes seen as a virtue (deliberative and wise), crocodiles are hypocritical in English, linguistically inappropriate in Esperanto and something bad politically (I assume graft and corruption again) in Russian. And so on. Of course, in tp there is a problem with being specific about most things and emotions are particularly in short supply (we use 'pilin ike' or 'ike pilin' for anger and sadness and headaches and ...) so a nice metaphor would help. But we have no common culture to pull one out of (not that referring to, say, dogs would help, since we don't have a word -- or even an agreed upon phrase -- for that either). If an emotion is going to play a major role, we seem to be thrown back on NMS, describing a situation in which that emotion is clearly involved and then labeling it and carrying that label forward. Maybe we can thus build up a body of idioms -- and not just for emotions.


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