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toki musi mute - Toki Pona Forums

toki musi mute

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janAetherStar
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toki musi mute

Postby janAetherStar » Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:36 am

Here are some random excerpts I've translated. Can anyone guess what they are? I probably don't know even if you do.
ni li toki musi pi toki Inli pi toki ante. taso, mi sitelen e ni kepeken toki pona. sina sona ala sona e toki musi?

1.
jan Kanti li pilin pona tan ni: ona li jo e pilin wawa pi lon ala. jan sama anu jan pona li toki e pilin lape li lon supa moku, anu li lon tomo sona la, ona li pilin e ni: pilin lape ona li kule mute li nasa mute. pilin lape pi jan ante li kule lili. taso, pilin lape ala ona li sama lili e pilin lape lon 'lawa suli' pi tenpo suno 'Jepa Tin'.

2.
jan Tiku li lon tomo li lon poka pi insa noka mama. ona li tawa e palisa noka tawa insa pi lipu seli tomo. insa tomo li lete. kon li lon. jan Tiku li open e lupa pi ilo seli suli.

3.
jan Pilipa li toki e ni: "mi wile e ni: mi jan wawa. mi jo e nena ike mute pi lawa sinpin."
jan Jon li toki e ni: "mi wile e ni: mi jan pi ijo uta suli. mi jo e telo loje lon ijo uta mi."
mama meli pi jan Pilipa en jan Jon li toki e ni: "jan Pilipa o, jan Jon o, sina tu li ken ala. ni li nasa!"
jan Jon li toki e ni: "a, tenpo sike ale la mi mute li toki utala. mi sona ala e ni: mi tu li ken ala tan seme? tenpo Alojin li musi taso."

Do whatever you want with these, even cross-translate it if you want, that could turn out fun. :D
sina wile la o sitelen. :D
ale li pona. :)
sina o sona e ni.

janSilipu
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Re: toki musi mute

Postby janSilipu » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:31 pm

1. Kanti feels good because he has a strong feeling of nonexistence. If a brother or friend speaks a sleepy feeling or is on a dining table or is at school, then he thinks that his sleepy feeling is very weird and more a color than the sleepy feeling of the other person. But his Lack of a sleepy feeling is slightly identified in the big head of the day Jepa Tin with a sleepy feeling. [i think I know some of what happened here, but not enough to reconstruct eith confidence.]

2. dick is at home and next to a parental knee. He moves his toes To the middle of the domestic hot leaf. The inside of the house is cold. There is air. Dick opens the door of the oven. [Better, but still odd]

3. Philipa says "I want to be a strong person. I have many bad bumps on my front head". Jon says "I ant to be a perso with a big tongue . I have blood on my tongue.". The mother of Philipa and Jon says "Philipa! Jon! You two can't. That is crazy.". Jon says "Oh, every year we talk angrily. I don't know why we can't . Alojin time is just fun.".
[best, but I don't get the context]

I suppose sleepy feelings are dreams, and can't is impossible. Some of the others don't work up to anything for me.

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janAetherStar
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Re: toki musi mute

Postby janAetherStar » Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:27 am

Haha, I guess I didn't do so well then. ike mi! :oops:
Here are the original ones, taken from http://www.readersread.com/excerpts/

1. Abarat, by Clive Barker

Candy had always prided herself upon having a vivid imagination. When, for instance, she privately compared her dreams with those her brothers described over the breakfast table, or her friends at school exchanged at break, she always discovered her own night visions were a lot wilder and weirder than anybody else's. But there was nothing she could remember dreaming -- by day or night -- that came close to the sight that greeted her in The Great Head of the Yebba Dim Day.

2. Beyond the Deepwoods, by Paul Stewart, Illustrated by Chris Riddell

Twig sat on the floor between his mother’s knees, and curled his toes in the thick fleece of the tilder rug. It was cold and draughty in the cabin. Twig leaned forwards and opened the door of the stove.

3. The Blue Djinn of Babylon, by P.B. Kerr

“I want to be a witch,” said Philippa. “With lots of warts.”
“And I want to be a vampire,” said John. “With real blood on my teeth.”
“Both of you know that’s out of the question,” their mother said briskly.
“We have this argument every year,” sighed John. “I don’t see what you’ve got against it, Mom. Halloween’s just some harmless fun.”
ale li pona. :)
sina o sona e ni.

janKipo
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Re: toki musi mute

Postby janKipo » Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:31 pm

Well, at least I don't have to worry about not recognizing texts, since I never cognized them. A couple look interesting, though. Nor need you worry that things didn't go too well; a lot did and the rest is really hard. Too hard for me to be tempted to give a "correct" version, for starters. But herewith a few comments, for what little they are worth:
"imagination" refers to a pilin of some sort and about unreal things (or unreal events about real things) but it involves something more specific. I think that is best summarized by 'sitelen' (I happen to dream in text but most people, I am told, dream in pictures). I am not sure how to get this all together in a manageable expression.
'wawa' is probably pretty good for "vivid" in this context.
"describe a dream" is more than saying it (indeed, I would argue you can't say a dream, but I admit I have about given up on this and may stop complaining about 'toki e x' for "talk about x", even though the community did decide on this once -- at least -- before), at least 'toki e ijo pi sitelen lapi' (or whatever dreams are).
The grammar of tp just can't do the next sentence in one sentence and maybe not in several. You want "when x or y then z" but it is not clear that you can 1) use 'anu' to join sentences, 2) use such a conjoined sentence as a 'la' clause, 3) do as you do to 'anu' together predicates and 4} have parallel 'anu' coordinate out in order. Assuming we can get by 1 and 2 then it would be best to avoid the problem of 4 by using two totally separate sentences: sibs discuss at the table, classmates at school and maybe even avoid 3 by attaching the prep phrases to the nouns (with a change in meaning maybe, but not devastating, compared to the grammar problems).
'kule' means "color" or possibly "colored" and does not yet have the extended meaning "colorful". This may be the start of that move (but, is it overly English?).
'x sama y e z' is "x made z like y" so "no dream made a dream seem small " at the Great Head on the day. I think just dropping the 'e' and maybe connecting the PPs to the dream rather than the similarity will tidy this up.

If "Twig" is meant as a nature name, then 'Palisa(lili)' works,too.
If you want between, you get two 'insa's in the same stretch, so probably just 'poka' is better.
"fleece" surely contains 'linja' somehow (and probably 'soweli') and rug is going to contain 'len', I suppose. 'lipu' was clever but not at all transparent (I got to sheets of flame).
Of course there is air, but the important part is the it is coming in from outside and making things colder. At least 'kon li kama (insa?)'

Witches are jan wawa, but so are a goodly number of other, more likely, things. I suppose at least 'meli' over 'jan' and, probably (given the rest) some version of "old".
I think of warts as jaki rather than ike, but that is aesthetics.
For what it is worth, the face is the front of the head, not the top of the front (who makes these decisions?)
Teeth are (decisions again) are 'walo uta', but a vampire is probably better identified by drinking blood than by long teeth.
For some reason, "argue" has come out 'utala toki', though I don't see (now) why it is more fight than talk.
'sama' seems significant here. Also, "what you have against it" is rather stronger than "it is impossible".
I think /jin/ is not a legal tp syllable (but I always mess this detail up). In any case, the English is clearly /win/ and that is clearly legal (and turns an unknown into a known).


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